Discussion:
Slackware current
(too old to reply)
Eef Hartman
2017-11-17 07:12:56 UTC
Permalink
The new updates (Nov 17) in Slackware-current give a hint of what the
next version is going to be:
a/pkgtools-15.0-noarch-1.txz: Upgraded.

So the pkgtools package now has a 15.0 version (up from 14.2) which
probably means that the next release of Slackware will be 15.0 too.
No sign yet of aaa-base, so a release isn't real soon yet.

One of the changes is that Postfix and Dovecot have been added and the
kernel is upgraded to the 4.14 one.
Eef Hartman
2017-11-18 11:30:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
a/pkgtools-15.0-noarch-1.txz: Upgraded.
There's a 15.0 version number too on the etc package:
a/etc-15.0-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
(this is because of dovecot and postfix)
and the network-scripts one:
n/network-scripts-15.0-noarch-2.txz

The Changelog also mentions (about dovecot):
This will be the new IMAP/POP3 server in the next Slackware release.
and
This will be the default MTA in the next Slackware release.
(about postfix)
sendmail has been removed from the N series of packages, has moved to
/extra
Pat's comment about it is:
Moved here from the N series. This is still a solid choice for an MTA,
and probably the most flexible (although it can be difficult to configure
- it has been said that the M4 macro language resembles line noise).
John McCue
2017-11-18 15:34:00 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Eef Hartman
Moved here from the N series. This is still a solid choice for an MTA,
and probably the most flexible (although it can be difficult to configure
- it has been said that the M4 macro language resembles line noise).
I missed it, the comment reminds me of another funny
comment I saw in a c lang group: "c++ looks like two
small monkeys f****** on a keyboard"

Anyway, seems a few other systems default to postfix,
there must be a reason for that. I did hear it is
easier to config so will get to learn something new.
I did configure sendmail once a long time ago, and
even reading my notes I do not remember what I did
to get it working :)

John
Rich
2017-11-18 20:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by John McCue
<snip>
Post by Eef Hartman
Moved here from the N series. This is still a solid choice for an
MTA, and probably the most flexible (although it can be difficult to
configure - it has been said that the M4 macro language resembles
line noise).
I missed it, the comment reminds me of another funny
comment I saw in a c lang group: "c++ looks like two
small monkeys f****** on a keyboard"
Anyway, seems a few other systems default to postfix,
there must be a reason for that. I did hear it is
easier to config so will get to learn something new.
I did configure sendmail once a long time ago, and
even reading my notes I do not remember what I did
to get it working :)
Compared to configuring Sendmail, Postfix is trivial.

However, configuring it does require either:

1) some reasonable knowledge of internet email terms and their
meaning
or
2) a willingness to search for, learn the meanings, then continue on

I.e., someone knowing none of the termonology, and none of the tech,
likely won't be able to configure Postfix any more than they could
configure Sendmail.
Eef Hartman
2017-11-20 00:17:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich
likely won't be able to configure Postfix any more than they could
configure Sendmail.
On the other hand I had to find out how to configure sendmail even
before the m4 macros were developed and if you think m4 is an ugly
language, you should try the bare sendmail one!

BTW: this was in the late 80's on a HP-UX server (HP 9000/800 series),
long before Linux even existed.
Before sendmail we had to use uucp style "bang"mail
(host!host!host!receiver and so), sendmail essentially introduced
the @ style of sending E-mail to the Unix world.
Rich
2017-11-20 04:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by Rich
likely won't be able to configure Postfix any more than they could
configure Sendmail.
On the other hand I had to find out how to configure sendmail even
before the m4 macros were developed and if you think m4 is an ugly
language, you should try the bare sendmail one!
I made a few tiny edits to Slackware's bare sendmail config file back
in the day before Postfix existed. Yes, sendmail's bare config
language makes the sendmail m4 macros look tame, and easy.

Once Postfix appeared on the scene, I never again ran a sendmail copy
anywhere.
Mike Spencer
2017-11-20 18:24:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by Rich
likely won't be able to configure Postfix any more than they could
configure Sendmail.
On the other hand I had to find out how to configure sendmail even
before the m4 macros were developed and if you think m4 is an ugly
language, you should try the bare sendmail one!
As a home desk- & laptop single user, all I had to do was figure out
how to get my systems to do smarthosting through my ISP for outgoing
and make myself a "trusted user" to get rid of the -f
X-Authentication-Warning. My only complaint is that, in recent
versions, the mailq command doesn't report on outgoing that's in
/var/spool/clientmqueue, apparently a new feature since my bat book
was published.

With two ISPs, there are two alternative SMTP smarthosts. So I had to
cobble up a script that swapped two versions of sendmail.cf in/out
depending on which one I'm connected to.

I bought the great fat O'Reilly _Sendmail_ bat book because config
appeared hopelessly opaque without it and the little "Desktop
Reference" bat book didn't explain anything. It was all a bit of a
PITA, though, so I don't look forward to having to beat up a new
arrangement.

(Is it true that the O'Reilly animal books are no longer being
published? I live far from bookstores that could be expected to carry
them and the O'Reilly website seems keen to sell services.)
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
A Guy Called Tyketto
2017-11-21 07:06:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
(Is it true that the O'Reilly animal books are no longer being
published? I live far from bookstores that could be expected to carry
them and the O'Reilly website seems keen to sell services.)
I hadn't checked their site in years, but looking at it, it
looks like you're right.. Plus, I just found this while searching back
through /.

https://news.slashdot.org/story/17/06/28/2127213-oreilly-no-longer-selling-individual-books-videos-online

You can still get them at shop.oreilly.com or through Amazon or
brick and mortar stores, but not anymore at the main oreilly site.

BL.
--
Brad Littlejohn | Email: ***@sbcglobal.net
Unix Systems Administrator, | ***@ozemail.com.au
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF
Mike Spencer
2017-11-21 13:26:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
(Is it true that the O'Reilly animal books are no longer being
published? I live far from bookstores that could be expected to carry
them and the O'Reilly website seems keen to sell services.)
I hadn't checked their site in years, but looking at it, it looks
like you're right.. Plus, I just found this while searching back
through /.
https://news.slashdot.org/story/17/06/28/2127213-oreilly-no-longer-selling-individual-books-videos-online
Huh. Right. This from a comment on that page:

I ordered a couple of books direct from their online store a few
months ago, and it's obvious that making a high-quality print book
isn't a priority for ORA anymore. Now they do print-on-demand on
crappy paper stock, standard binding, and the type is inexcusably
blurry; not sure if it's font aliasing or ink bleeding on the
cheap paper. Needless to say their prices haven't gone down along
with the quality though.

I'm getting pretty old so I'm not beating up a new language or system
every few months but the O'Reilly books were almost always everything
you needed to know presented well in one place in a durable format.
Sic transit gloria mundi.

If *should* want to beat up a new language (Python keeps turning up
where I'd like to understand it) a good dead-tree book that I can read
with my feet up is what I want, not something that requires an
electronic dingus.
You can still get them at shop.oreilly.com or through Amazon or
brick and mortar stores, but not anymore at the main oreilly site.
In the 90s, there were brochures floating around, small booklets
really, with a list of their currently available books and a precis of
each. Haven't seen one for years. Dang.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
maus
2017-11-23 08:41:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by A Guy Called Tyketto
Post by Mike Spencer
(Is it true that the O'Reilly animal books are no longer being
published? I live far from bookstores that could be expected to carry
them and the O'Reilly website seems keen to sell services.)
I hadn't checked their site in years, but looking at it, it
looks like you're right.. Plus, I just found this while searching back
through /.
https://news.slashdot.org/story/17/06/28/2127213-oreilly-no-longer-selling-individual-books-videos-online
You can still get them at shop.oreilly.com or through Amazon or
brick and mortar stores, but not anymore at the main oreilly site.
BL.
AFAIK, most are available online for free.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
Mike Spencer
2017-11-24 00:12:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by maus
Post by Mike Spencer
(Is it true that the O'Reilly animal books are no longer being
published? I live far from bookstores that could be expected to carry
them and the O'Reilly website seems keen to sell services.)
AFAIK, most are available online for free.
I like actual, well-made, bound books. Admittedly, there are (or have
been) a lot of great fat books on computer subjects that are really
awful instructional, tutorial or learning material. Such of the
O'Reilly animal books as I have do not fall into that category.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Jim Diamond
2017-11-22 17:34:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by Rich
likely won't be able to configure Postfix any more than they could
configure Sendmail.
On the other hand I had to find out how to configure sendmail even
before the m4 macros were developed and if you think m4 is an ugly
language, you should try the bare sendmail one!
As a home desk- & laptop single user, all I had to do was figure out
how to get my systems to do smarthosting through my ISP for outgoing
and make myself a "trusted user" to get rid of the -f
X-Authentication-Warning. My only complaint is that, in recent
versions, the mailq command doesn't report on outgoing that's in
/var/spool/clientmqueue, apparently a new feature since my bat book
was published.
With two ISPs, there are two alternative SMTP smarthosts. So I had to
cobble up a script that swapped two versions of sendmail.cf in/out
depending on which one I'm connected to.
Hi Mike,

This may not be of interest to your particular situation, but in case
it is...

(As you may already know) It turns out that sendmail supports
something called "smarttable", with which you can specify different
smarthosts for different "from" addresses. I use it because my
employer's e-mail system will no longer accept messages allegedly from
me if they come from my home ISP, and they won't forward my e-mails if
I use my ISP "from" address.

If this is of any interest to you, but you don't immediately see how
to set it up, feel free to send me e-mail (figuring out my e-mail addr
is left as an exercise to the diligent student) and I can give you
more details.

Cheers.
Jim
Mike Spencer
2017-11-22 22:33:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Diamond
Post by Mike Spencer
how to get my systems to do smarthosting through my ISP for outgoing
and make myself a "trusted user" to get rid of the -f
X-Authentication-Warning. My only complaint is that, in recent
versions, the mailq command doesn't report on outgoing that's in
/var/spool/clientmqueue, apparently a new feature since my bat book
was published.
With two ISPs, there are two alternative SMTP smarthosts. So I had to
cobble up a script that swapped two versions of sendmail.cf in/out
depending on which one I'm connected to.
This may not be of interest to your particular situation, but in case
it is...
(As you may already know) It turns out that sendmail supports
something called "smarttable", with which you can specify different
smarthosts for different "from" addresses. I use it because my
employer's e-mail system will no longer accept messages allegedly from
me if they come from my home ISP, and they won't forward my e-mails if
I use my ISP "from" address.
If this is of any interest to you, but you don't immediately see how
to set it up, feel free to send me e-mail (figuring out my e-mail addr
is left as an exercise to the diligent student) and I can give you
more details.
Been a couple of years since I looked at this. I "mis-spoke". ;-) My
script swaps versions /etc/mail/mailertable and
/etc/mail/mailertable.db in and out of a subdir, not sendmail.cf.

So it's working fine. A little messing about to get an suid wrapper
for the perlscript (I'm a *very* amateur programmer) that mucks with
rwxr-xr-x files belonging to root.
Post by Jim Diamond
(As you may already know)...
Didn't. I'm guessing that "smarttable" may be a feature available in
a sendmail more recent than mine (8.13). For the moment, all is well
but your comment and offer noted for future reference. I *will* have
to upgrade eventually. My laptop is already more up to date so I'll
have a look there.
Post by Jim Diamond
...(figuring out my e-mail addr is left as an exercise to the
diligent student)...
I think I can manage that. :-)
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Jim Diamond
2017-11-23 01:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by Jim Diamond
(As you may already know) It turns out that sendmail supports
something called "smarttable", with which you can specify different
smarthosts for different "from" addresses. I use it because my
employer's e-mail system will no longer accept messages allegedly from
me if they come from my home ISP, and they won't forward my e-mails if
I use my ISP "from" address.
If this is of any interest to you, but you don't immediately see how
to set it up, feel free to send me e-mail (figuring out my e-mail addr
is left as an exercise to the diligent student) and I can give you
more details.
Been a couple of years since I looked at this. I "mis-spoke". ;-) My
script swaps versions /etc/mail/mailertable and
/etc/mail/mailertable.db in and out of a subdir, not sendmail.cf.
Not a big deal I suppose, nice swapping one pair of files is similar
to swapping another pair of files.
Post by Mike Spencer
So it's working fine. A little messing about to get an suid wrapper
for the perlscript (I'm a *very* amateur programmer) that mucks with
rwxr-xr-x files belonging to root.
Yeah, that can be a pain.
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by Jim Diamond
(As you may already know)...
Didn't. I'm guessing that "smarttable" may be a feature available in
a sendmail more recent than mine (8.13).
Maybe, I dunno, this problem only came up for me after I installed
14.2, which has sendmail 8.15.2.
Post by Mike Spencer
For the moment, all is well but your comment and offer noted for
future reference. I *will* have to upgrade eventually. My laptop
is already more up to date so I'll have a look there.
I keep hoping Pat will bring out the next version soon, but who knows
when that will be.
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by Jim Diamond
...(figuring out my e-mail addr is left as an exercise to the
diligent student)...
I think I can manage that. :-)
I figured you'd pass that test!

Cheers.
Jim
Henrik Carlqvist
2017-11-21 06:39:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
sendmail has been removed from the N series of packages, has moved to
/extra
Still kind of sad though as sendmail nowadays seems to have become
really "stable". Some more than 10 years ago sendmail did require a lot
of security updates.

regards Henrik
--
The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
hc351(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
***@localhost ***@localhost
Eef Hartman
2017-12-25 12:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
So the pkgtools package now has a 15.0 version (up from 14.2) which
probably means that the next release of Slackware will be 15.0 too.
No sign yet of aaa-base, so a release isn't real soon yet.
The most definitive sign of the next release version was in the latest
update of -current:
x/xorg-server-1.19.6-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
Bumped Slackware version number reported by xorg-server to 15.0.

So the next release _will_ be version 15.0 !
Rinaldi J. Montessi
2017-12-25 13:11:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by Eef Hartman
So the pkgtools package now has a 15.0 version (up from 14.2) which
probably means that the next release of Slackware will be 15.0 too.
No sign yet of aaa-base, so a release isn't real soon yet.
The most definitive sign of the next release version was in the latest
x/xorg-server-1.19.6-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
Bumped Slackware version number reported by xorg-server to 15.0.
So the next release _will_ be version 15.0 !
With kde5?
--
An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.
Aragorn
2017-12-25 14:26:05 UTC
Permalink
On Monday 25 December 2017 14:11, Rinaldi J. Montessi conveyed the
following to alt.os.linux.slackware...
Post by Rinaldi J. Montessi
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by Eef Hartman
So the pkgtools package now has a 15.0 version (up from 14.2) which
probably means that the next release of Slackware will be 15.0 too.
No sign yet of aaa-base, so a release isn't real soon yet.
The most definitive sign of the next release version was in the
x/xorg-server-1.19.6-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
Bumped Slackware version number reported by xorg-server to 15.0.
So the next release _will_ be version 15.0 !
With kde5?
KDE Plasma *is* the default desktop environment in Slackware ─ the
current upstream version is Plasma 5.11, I believe, with 5.8 being a
long-term support version ─ but nothing stops you from installing
another desktop environment, or an alternative window manager, or both.
;)

The only thing that's going to be problematic is if you were to want
GNOME 3, because GNOME 3 has a hard dependency on Lennartwa... I mean,
systemd. :p
--
With respect,
= Aragorn =
Rinaldi J. Montessi
2017-12-25 15:25:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aragorn
On Monday 25 December 2017 14:11, Rinaldi J. Montessi conveyed the
following to alt.os.linux.slackware...
Post by Rinaldi J. Montessi
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by Eef Hartman
So the pkgtools package now has a 15.0 version (up from 14.2) which
probably means that the next release of Slackware will be 15.0 too.
No sign yet of aaa-base, so a release isn't real soon yet.
The most definitive sign of the next release version was in the
x/xorg-server-1.19.6-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
Bumped Slackware version number reported by xorg-server to 15.0.
So the next release _will_ be version 15.0 !
With kde5?
KDE Plasma *is* the default desktop environment in Slackware ─ the
current upstream version is Plasma 5.11, I believe, with 5.8 being a
long-term support version ─ but nothing stops you from installing
another desktop environment, or an alternative window manager, or both.
;)
I'm using KDE, have been since v3.x. The transitions are always a pain
for me. I'm very finicky about my desktop and once I get it set I hate
having to reinvent the wheel.

Does it honor LC_COLLATE=C so I won't have to keep using Thunar to get
the correct sort order? (.1 .2 1 2 A B a b)
Post by Aragorn
The only thing that's going to be problematic is if you were to want
GNOME 3, because GNOME 3 has a hard dependency on Lennartwa... I mean,
systemd. :p
No thank you ;-)

Rinaldi
--
Corrupt, adj.:
In politics, holding an office of trust or profit.
Aragorn
2017-12-25 15:47:56 UTC
Permalink
On Monday 25 December 2017 16:25, Rinaldi J. Montessi conveyed the
following to alt.os.linux.slackware...
Post by Rinaldi J. Montessi
Post by Aragorn
On Monday 25 December 2017 14:11, Rinaldi J. Montessi conveyed the
following to alt.os.linux.slackware...
Post by Rinaldi J. Montessi
Post by Eef Hartman
So the next release _will_ be version 15.0 !
With kde5?
KDE Plasma *is* the default desktop environment in Slackware ─ the
current upstream version is Plasma 5.11, I believe, with 5.8 being a
long-term support version ─ but nothing stops you from installing
another desktop environment, or an alternative window manager, or
both. ;)
I'm using KDE, have been since v3.x.
I've been using it since 1.x. ;)
Post by Rinaldi J. Montessi
The transitions are always a pain for me. I'm very finicky about my
desktop and once I get it set I hate having to reinvent the wheel.
Same thing here. I'm still using Plasma 4.14.18, but with a completely
customized layout, settings, color scheme and theme. And I can't get
even the latest Plasma 5.11 to look like this, plus that 5.11 still
lacks a lot of the functionality that 4.14 had.
Post by Rinaldi J. Montessi
Does it honor LC_COLLATE=C so I won't have to keep using Thunar to get
the correct sort order? (.1 .2 1 2 A B a b)
I don't know about Plasma 5, but Plasma 4 certainly does. I too have
LC-COLLATE set to C.
Post by Rinaldi J. Montessi
Post by Aragorn
The only thing that's going to be problematic is if you were to want
GNOME 3, because GNOME 3 has a hard dependency on Lennartwa... I
mean, systemd. :p
No thank you ;-)
Didn't think so either. ;)
--
With respect,
= Aragorn =
Eef Hartman
2017-12-25 16:11:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aragorn
KDE Plasma *is* the default desktop environment in Slackware
Yeah, but kdeplasma-addons-4.14.3, not a 5.x version.
And as there's no qt 5 either, adding Plasma 5 will be "non-trivial"
too.

Eef Hartman
2017-12-25 16:06:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rinaldi J. Montessi
Post by Eef Hartman
So the next release _will_ be version 15.0 !
With kde5?
At the moment: no.
4.14.3 and qt 4.8.7
are the versions I can see there.
Post by Rinaldi J. Montessi
KDE Applications 4.14 is not about lots of "new and improved stuff".
This release offers more software stability, with little emphasis on
new and less-proven stuff.
There are over 200 actively maintained KDE applications. Many of
them are listed in the KDE userbase. Wikipedia also has another
list of KDE applications.
So Pat seems to focus more on stability too, not on Plasma 5
Note that Plasma Workspaces and KDE Frameworks are now on a differrent
release schedule than KDE Applications.
Loading...