Discussion:
A new Slackware release is really starting to be required...
(too old to reply)
bleak_fire_
2015-10-16 00:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

The last stable release of Slackware was 14.1, which was in late 2013.

It is my understanding that Slackware releases are mostly a "when needed"
and "bug free" thing, and trying to get things working and secure for a
release.

I myself have run into a number of problems with outdated packages so far:

1. I had to install the -current kernel packages in order to get hardware
to work properly.

2. The FileZilla FTP client is forced to be 4 versions behind due to
Slackware's outdated gcc/g++ version. I'm not risking messing around with
current's development packages.

3. I have installed Firefox Beta locally as well as TBB due to Slackware
using the ESR. Whether older versions or newer versions are good for some
addons and bad for others depends on the addon in question. It appears
however that -current has switched back to Firefox stable and does not use
ESR.

My *guess* as to what's going on is that perhaps the development team is
waiting for a time when everything can be considered secure and ready for
production. However, in the world of Heartbleed, Poodle, and rolling
releases the security updates seem to be ongoing, and I'm wondering if
there will ever be a time a Linux distribution will be "ready for
production".

I don't know if this is the reason Slackware Stable hasn't been updated
since 14.1/2013, but if anyone has any information, I'd love to know more.
The Changelogs say nothing about "we're almost ready for an RC" when
usually they do by now.

Anyone know what's going on?
--
-bleak_fire_

fka "azz" et al since nine-seven
Henrik Carlqvist
2015-10-16 05:41:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by bleak_fire_
1. I had to install the -current kernel packages in order to get
hardware to work properly.
Which hardware? If it is only things like network cards it might help to
simply download the source of a kernel module and compile that new code
together with your old kernel.
Post by bleak_fire_
2. The FileZilla FTP client is forced to be 4 versions behind due to
Slackware's outdated gcc/g++ version. I'm not risking messing around
with current's development packages.
From the Requirements section of FileZilla INSTALL instructions:

-8<------------------------------------
- A C++14 compiler, e.g. a recent GCC or Clang
-8<------------------------------------

Unfortunately, those projects built upon languages being moving targets
like C++ will allways be very picky about compiler versions. Recent such
sources will not compile with an old compiler and old such sources might
not compile with a newer compiler. Unless you really need some feature of
the latest version of FileZilla you might be better off trying to compile
a version of about the same age as your compiler.
Post by bleak_fire_
Anyone know what's going on?
I don't know, but my guess is that the pace of Linux development and also
the pace of new applications for Linux might have stalled some. 10 years
ago there were more than one Slackware release every year (usually two
releases every year). Back then each release contained a new kernel with
some significant new feature like support for SMP or support for loadable
kernel modules. Usually there were also some amazing new applications
like gimp, web browsers or maybe even some complete new desktop
environment.

Today the new releases does not come as often and each release does not
contain as much new stuff. Still, as there are more packages, it probably
means more work to produce and test every new release.

regards Henrik
--
The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
hc351(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
***@localhost ***@localhost
bleak_fire_
2015-10-16 22:50:04 UTC
Permalink
on the great fire of Fri, 16 Oct 2015 05:41:09 +0000 (UTC), Henrik
Carlqvist leapt from the flames and screamed...
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Post by bleak_fire_
1. I had to install the -current kernel packages in order to get
hardware to work properly.
Which hardware? If it is only things like network cards it might help to
simply download the source of a kernel module and compile that new code
together with your old kernel.
It was an issue with certain older integrated Realtek LANs which was solved
by using a later kernel and adding some kernel params to LILO.
--
-bleak_fire_

fka "azz" et al since nine-seven
Henrik Carlqvist
2015-10-17 06:53:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by bleak_fire_
It was an issue with certain older integrated Realtek LANs which was
solved by using a later kernel and adding some kernel params to LILO.
Was it really necessary to upgrade the entire kernel? Maybe it would have
been enough to only download and compile the source for a new module?

At the time of this writing, the latest Linux driver from
http://www.realtek.com.tw/Downloads/downloadsView.aspx?
Conn=4&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false&Langid=1&Level=5&PFid=5&PNid=13#2
is version 8.040 dated 2015-05-14.

Usually you do not have to download and install drivers in Linux. You
just plug the hardware in and it works with the drivers included with the
kernel. However, if your hardware is newer than your kernel you might
have to upgrade a driver. In such cases it is usually easier to upgrade a
single kernel module than to upgrade the entire kernel.

However, if time is of any value for you, you might find that it is even
cheaper replacing hardware than to work with drivers.

regards Henrik
--
The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
hc351(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
***@localhost ***@localhost
Mike Spencer
2015-10-17 15:13:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Usually you do not have to download and install drivers in Linux. You
just plug the hardware in and it works with the drivers included with the
kernel. However, if your hardware is newer than your kernel you might
have to upgrade a driver. In such cases it is usually easier to upgrade a
single kernel module than to upgrade the entire kernel.
Only hardware problem I've seen with Slackware (from 8.0 to 14.1,
numerous older boxen) is complete failure of 14.1 to manage the
Synaptics "clickpad" on my only bought-new laptop, an Acer E17. Seen
by USB but totally unresponsive despite extensive investigation and
dicking around. Upgrading kernel to [I forget, 3.something; that
machine isn't running just now] got a response from the pad but
an erratic, unusable one.
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
However, if time is of any value for you, you might find that it is
even cheaper replacing hardware than to work with drivers.
I was probably foolish to buy a laptop with a "clickpad". I liked the
other features. It will probably never work as expected, viz. like the
3-button mouse I'm accustomed to.

I'm okay with plugging in a USB mouse although it's a bit of an
annoyance. It'd be nice to replace the whole overly-clever clickpad
unit with a toucpad and buttons but I'm not that much of a hardware
hacker.

I *do* use things from Pasture, especially lprng. My elderly Brother
laser printer works fine under lprng, isn't supported by CUPS.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Jerry Peters
2015-10-17 19:59:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Usually you do not have to download and install drivers in Linux. You
just plug the hardware in and it works with the drivers included with the
kernel. However, if your hardware is newer than your kernel you might
have to upgrade a driver. In such cases it is usually easier to upgrade a
single kernel module than to upgrade the entire kernel.
I'd say this is bad advice Henrik. The interface that the kernel
presents to modules is *not* stable. There's no guarantee that a
module targeted at a newer kernel version will compile or work on an
older version. And compiling a kernel is not *really* that difficult.
Post by Mike Spencer
Only hardware problem I've seen with Slackware (from 8.0 to 14.1,
numerous older boxen) is complete failure of 14.1 to manage the
Synaptics "clickpad" on my only bought-new laptop, an Acer E17. Seen
by USB but totally unresponsive despite extensive investigation and
dicking around. Upgrading kernel to [I forget, 3.something; that
machine isn't running just now] got a response from the pad but
an erratic, unusable one.
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
However, if time is of any value for you, you might find that it is
even cheaper replacing hardware than to work with drivers.
I was probably foolish to buy a laptop with a "clickpad". I liked the
other features. It will probably never work as expected, viz. like the
3-button mouse I'm accustomed to.
I'm okay with plugging in a USB mouse although it's a bit of an
annoyance. It'd be nice to replace the whole overly-clever clickpad
unit with a toucpad and buttons but I'm not that much of a hardware
hacker.
I *do* use things from Pasture, especially lprng. My elderly Brother
laser printer works fine under lprng, isn't supported by CUPS.
Try the latest stable kernel, I think it's 4.2.2, I've seem some
recent work on Windows Precision TPs.
Henrik Carlqvist
2015-10-17 20:52:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Peters
I'd say this is bad advice Henrik. The interface that the kernel
presents to modules is *not* stable. There's no guarantee that a module
targeted at a newer kernel version will compile or work on an older
version.
Mostly nic (and also other) vendors specify which kernels different
module sources are supposed to work with. In this example Realtek
provides one driver version 8.040 for kernels 3.x, 2.6.x and 2.4.x.

I haven´t tried that driver myself, but it probably works fine with
Slackware 14.1 to as old releases as 8.1. If, for some reason it does not
work with an old 2.4 kernel, you could also from the same page download
version 1.07 of the same driver which also is supposed to work with
kernel 2.4.x.
Post by Jerry Peters
Try the latest stable kernel, I think it's 4.2.2,
You seem to assume that the kernel is just some component which can
easily be replaced in a distribution. Unfortunately that is not the case.
The kernel has tight bounds with the modules and glibc and each version
of Slackware comes with a matching set of kernel, modules and glibc. On a
customized system which has been running for some years you might also
have added some third party modules.

During the years I have done some mistakes and I have learned which
mistakes not to do again.

I have learned the hard way not to try to upgrade to a newer version of
glibc. I don't even remember why I once tried to, but to me the newly
compiled glibc seemed to work fine. But then the users started to
complain they couldn't log in to the systems. It turned out that the NIS
connection somehow got broken with the new glibc.

I have also learned not to mix kernels with a custom configuration (like
highmem support) with kernel modules with a default different
configuration. Doing so might hang the kernel.

And I have learned not to try to upgrade the kernel. Mostly such attempts
have resulted in missing modules as all installed modules did not come
from the kernel sources. This might happen when having installed third
party modules yourself, but at some occasion I was missing display driver
modules which were included in Slackware but were not part of the kernel
sources. Instead they came with some xfree86 package, but the source for
those modules were not included on the installation media.

Even if a newer kernel works just fine with your installed glibc compiled
against your old kernel... And even if you are able to recompile all the
modules that you need... Even then you will find that you have spent far
more time downloading compiling a complete new kernel with all modules
than you would have done downloading and compiling only one single module
to support your new hardware.

regards Henrik
--
The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
hc351(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
***@localhost ***@localhost
Jerry Peters
2015-10-18 20:20:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Post by Jerry Peters
I'd say this is bad advice Henrik. The interface that the kernel
presents to modules is *not* stable. There's no guarantee that a module
targeted at a newer kernel version will compile or work on an older
version.
Mostly nic (and also other) vendors specify which kernels different
module sources are supposed to work with. In this example Realtek
provides one driver version 8.040 for kernels 3.x, 2.6.x and 2.4.x.
I haven´t tried that driver myself, but it probably works fine with
Slackware 14.1 to as old releases as 8.1. If, for some reason it does not
work with an old 2.4 kernel, you could also from the same page download
version 1.07 of the same driver which also is supposed to work with
kernel 2.4.x.
Post by Jerry Peters
Try the latest stable kernel, I think it's 4.2.2,
You seem to assume that the kernel is just some component which can
easily be replaced in a distribution. Unfortunately that is not the case.
The kernel has tight bounds with the modules and glibc and each version
of Slackware comes with a matching set of kernel, modules and glibc. On a
customized system which has been running for some years you might also
have added some third party modules.
No Henrik, I don't assume, I use the latest stable kernels -- on Salix
14.1 which is derived from Slack 14.1. Linus and the other kernel
developers go to great lengths to make sure that the kernel is
backwards compatible. They have, on occasion, even reimplemented bugs
because of backward compatiblity.
As for modules, the requirement is that the modules *must* match the
kernel version. IIRC there's a taint flag if you force load an
incompatible module, which means that no kernel developer will even
look at any error reports.
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
During the years I have done some mistakes and I have learned which
mistakes not to do again.
I have learned the hard way not to try to upgrade to a newer version of
glibc. I don't even remember why I once tried to, but to me the newly
compiled glibc seemed to work fine. But then the users started to
complain they couldn't log in to the systems. It turned out that the NIS
connection somehow got broken with the new glibc.
But you don't need to upgrade glibc for the latest kernel, I certainly
never have. And I've been using the latest stable kernels now for
*years*.
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
I have also learned not to mix kernels with a custom configuration (like
highmem support) with kernel modules with a default different
configuration. Doing so might hang the kernel.
If you build the kernel and its modules together this is not a
problem. That's why I recommended building the complete kernel rather
than just a module -- you're guarateed that the modules *exactly*
match the kernel version and configuration options.
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
And I have learned not to try to upgrade the kernel. Mostly such attempts
have resulted in missing modules as all installed modules did not come
from the kernel sources. This might happen when having installed third
party modules yourself, but at some occasion I was missing display driver
modules which were included in Slackware but were not part of the kernel
sources. Instead they came with some xfree86 package, but the source for
those modules were not included on the installation media.
Even if a newer kernel works just fine with your installed glibc compiled
against your old kernel... And even if you are able to recompile all the
modules that you need... Even then you will find that you have spent far
more time downloading compiling a complete new kernel with all modules
than you would have done downloading and compiling only one single module
to support your new hardware.
regards Henrik
But at least I can assume the result is going to work, and if not can
file a bug report on LKML if it doesn't.
Again, it's no big deal to compile a kernel on a modern machine.
Peter Chant
2015-10-19 17:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Peters
But at least I can assume the result is going to work, and if not can
file a bug report on LKML if it doesn't.
Again, it's no big deal to compile a kernel on a modern machine.
It didn't used to be. Back sometime before 1998 (when I moved to
current house, only relevant to remembering back when) I recall that my
P133 could compile a kernel in 15 minutes and my K6 system in 4!
Sometime around then I could also remember the key kernel options as
there were few enough important ones. I think this is a indication of
how things have changed as a compile takes far longer on a much more
powerful machine.

Now I just copy .config from the default slack kernel into the latest
source tree and run 'make newconfig' with little drama. Apart from make
newconfig being a little tedious.

Pete
Rich
2015-10-19 21:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Chant
Post by Jerry Peters
But at least I can assume the result is going to work, and if not can
file a bug report on LKML if it doesn't.
Again, it's no big deal to compile a kernel on a modern machine.
It didn't used to be. Back sometime before 1998 (when I moved to
current house, only relevant to remembering back when) I recall that my
P133 could compile a kernel in 15 minutes and my K6 system in 4!
You were lucky. I remember kernel compiles on my i386 33Mhz system
from the SLS days taking over an hour to complete.

That made for a serious pain when one forgot to enable one essential
bit of hardware needed for booting the new kernel (i.e., forgetting to
turn on the proper IDE chipset interface for the hard drive).
Chris Vine
2015-10-19 23:16:49 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 19 Oct 2015 18:27:26 +0100
Post by Peter Chant
Post by Jerry Peters
But at least I can assume the result is going to work, and if not
can file a bug report on LKML if it doesn't.
Again, it's no big deal to compile a kernel on a modern machine.
It didn't used to be. Back sometime before 1998 (when I moved to
current house, only relevant to remembering back when) I recall that
my P133 could compile a kernel in 15 minutes and my K6 system in 4!
Sometime around then I could also remember the key kernel options as
there were few enough important ones. I think this is a indication of
how things have changed as a compile takes far longer on a much more
powerful machine.
Now I just copy .config from the default slack kernel into the latest
source tree and run 'make newconfig' with little drama. Apart from
make newconfig being a little tedious.
Err ... 'make oldconfig'

I also have never had any difficulty compiling and running more recent
kernels than slackware provides. Provided /usr/include/linux contains
the headers against which glibc was compiled (which it does until Pat
upgrades his own kernel, and on his own head be it) then you are good
to go. The kernel does not break user space.

And, to go back to the original posting, a new release is needed. Two
years is too long. I recently came across the case where some
bluetooth stuff I wanted to use doesn't compile on slackware because
udev is too old now. I can't upgrade udev because it involves a so
number bump which would require me to recompile numerous packages, so
I am stuck.

Chris
Jim Diamond
2015-10-19 00:15:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Post by Jerry Peters
I'd say this is bad advice Henrik. The interface that the kernel
presents to modules is *not* stable. There's no guarantee that a module
targeted at a newer kernel version will compile or work on an older
version.
Mostly nic (and also other) vendors specify which kernels different
module sources are supposed to work with. In this example Realtek
provides one driver version 8.040 for kernels 3.x, 2.6.x and 2.4.x.
I haven´t tried that driver myself, but it probably works fine with
Slackware 14.1 to as old releases as 8.1. If, for some reason it does not
work with an old 2.4 kernel, you could also from the same page download
version 1.07 of the same driver which also is supposed to work with
kernel 2.4.x.
Post by Jerry Peters
Try the latest stable kernel, I think it's 4.2.2,
You seem to assume that the kernel is just some component which can
easily be replaced in a distribution. Unfortunately that is not the case.
The kernel has tight bounds with the modules and glibc and each version
of Slackware comes with a matching set of kernel, modules and glibc. On a
customized system which has been running for some years you might also
have added some third party modules.
I've been replacing the stock slackware kernel with newer versions
practically since I started using Slackware in 1995. In all this
time, for dozens if not hundreds of different kernel versions, the
only issues I've every run into was with nvidia or ATI/AMD graphics
cards and the proprietary modules I was using for them.

I'm genuinely sorry that you ran into issues, but I think your
experience is atypical, or you did something really wrong. I don't
think anyone should feel worried about trying a newer kernel any time
it so suits them(*). As long as they don't do something (silly) like
clobber their working kernel or its modules, and they configure lilo
(or grub or whatever) to allow them to boot their working kernel,
what's the big deal?

(*) Of course, if we are talking about a production computer running
an air traffic control system, a stock exchange, or some medical
equipment, that is a different story.

Compiling a kernel on a system with a different version of glibc than
the target system does sound like it is asking for trouble, but
advising people to compile the kernel on the system to which it will
be deployed is not a big constraint.

Cheers.

Jim
Michael Black
2015-10-19 01:58:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Diamond
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Post by Jerry Peters
I'd say this is bad advice Henrik. The interface that the kernel
presents to modules is *not* stable. There's no guarantee that a module
targeted at a newer kernel version will compile or work on an older
version.
Mostly nic (and also other) vendors specify which kernels different
module sources are supposed to work with. In this example Realtek
provides one driver version 8.040 for kernels 3.x, 2.6.x and 2.4.x.
I havenŽt tried that driver myself, but it probably works fine with
Slackware 14.1 to as old releases as 8.1. If, for some reason it does not
work with an old 2.4 kernel, you could also from the same page download
version 1.07 of the same driver which also is supposed to work with
kernel 2.4.x.
Post by Jerry Peters
Try the latest stable kernel, I think it's 4.2.2,
You seem to assume that the kernel is just some component which can
easily be replaced in a distribution. Unfortunately that is not the case.
The kernel has tight bounds with the modules and glibc and each version
of Slackware comes with a matching set of kernel, modules and glibc. On a
customized system which has been running for some years you might also
have added some third party modules.
I've been replacing the stock slackware kernel with newer versions
practically since I started using Slackware in 1995. In all this
time, for dozens if not hundreds of different kernel versions, the
only issues I've every run into was with nvidia or ATI/AMD graphics
cards and the proprietary modules I was using for them.
That's always been the case "within reason". Don't expect to be able to
make large jumps in kernel versions, but since Slackware just uses the
standard kernel, one doesn't have to worry about not having a customized
kernel.

Michael
Post by Jim Diamond
I'm genuinely sorry that you ran into issues, but I think your
experience is atypical, or you did something really wrong. I don't
think anyone should feel worried about trying a newer kernel any time
it so suits them(*). As long as they don't do something (silly) like
clobber their working kernel or its modules, and they configure lilo
(or grub or whatever) to allow them to boot their working kernel,
what's the big deal?
(*) Of course, if we are talking about a production computer running
an air traffic control system, a stock exchange, or some medical
equipment, that is a different story.
Compiling a kernel on a system with a different version of glibc than
the target system does sound like it is asking for trouble, but
advising people to compile the kernel on the system to which it will
be deployed is not a big constraint.
Cheers.
Jim
Grant
2015-10-19 14:33:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Diamond
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Post by Jerry Peters
I'd say this is bad advice Henrik. The interface that the kernel
presents to modules is *not* stable. There's no guarantee that a module
targeted at a newer kernel version will compile or work on an older
version.
Mostly nic (and also other) vendors specify which kernels different
module sources are supposed to work with. In this example Realtek
provides one driver version 8.040 for kernels 3.x, 2.6.x and 2.4.x.
I haven´t tried that driver myself, but it probably works fine with
Slackware 14.1 to as old releases as 8.1. If, for some reason it does not
work with an old 2.4 kernel, you could also from the same page download
version 1.07 of the same driver which also is supposed to work with
kernel 2.4.x.
Post by Jerry Peters
Try the latest stable kernel, I think it's 4.2.2,
You seem to assume that the kernel is just some component which can
easily be replaced in a distribution. Unfortunately that is not the case.
The kernel has tight bounds with the modules and glibc and each version
of Slackware comes with a matching set of kernel, modules and glibc. On a
customized system which has been running for some years you might also
have added some third party modules.
I've been replacing the stock slackware kernel with newer versions
practically since I started using Slackware in 1995. In all this
time, for dozens if not hundreds of different kernel versions, the
only issues I've every run into was with nvidia or ATI/AMD graphics
cards and the proprietary modules I was using for them.
I'm genuinely sorry that you ran into issues, but I think your
experience is atypical, or you did something really wrong. I don't
think anyone should feel worried about trying a newer kernel any time
it so suits them(*). As long as they don't do something (silly) like
clobber their working kernel or its modules, and they configure lilo
(or grub or whatever) to allow them to boot their working kernel,
what's the big deal?
(*) Of course, if we are talking about a production computer running
an air traffic control system, a stock exchange, or some medical
equipment, that is a different story.
Compiling a kernel on a system with a different version of glibc than
the target system does sound like it is asking for trouble, but
advising people to compile the kernel on the system to which it will
be deployed is not a big constraint.
I've been running Slackware since mid-2004, nothing has grasped my
attention since. Although I am a Windows (user for the desktop).

Slackware recently failed to restore on a brand new hardware, so with
some trepidation I instead Slack64-current, I didn't fault find the
issue, as another PC with same hardware booted. Point is, I don't
often find myself fighting the OS, nor am I often building a ten
disk NAS box.

I always run recent kernel, keeping in mind that kernel-space now
offers stable ("we don't break user-space" --Linus T. gawd knows
when).

So these day I expect to may have to compile a new kernel, the OS
kernel only used until got a working custom kernel in place. Rarely
a custom startup kernel in USB if things getting hairy.

Also, I'm not running a fleet of different Linux favourites, so a
distro-like kernel with modules is as useful as tits on a bull
IMHO.

I publish my kernels configurations, on
<http://bugsplatter.id.au/kernel/boxen/>
for those still interested in building custom kernels; over ten
years now, this was much used a resource before the 2.6 series (flow
to 3.x, 4.x) became dominant. Sites with faster and better hardware
overtook my home effort. I retire releases these days after I cannot
support them.


So yes, a new Slackware release is perhaps due, or is it just a
better installer experience to produce a viable startup, from where
_modern hardware_ hits the user?

But startup is not (IMHO) where it is at for a Linux box, if it is,
you might prefer a VM based system rather than a multi-boot system.

And, once you have a better installer, you get a better runtime?

Is there a better kernel installer out there? Because the kernel is
where it's at, due to the Linux built in kernel informs the software
and hardware interface.

Grant.
Jerry Peters
2015-10-19 20:14:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Diamond
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Post by Jerry Peters
I'd say this is bad advice Henrik. The interface that the kernel
presents to modules is *not* stable. There's no guarantee that a module
targeted at a newer kernel version will compile or work on an older
version.
Mostly nic (and also other) vendors specify which kernels different
module sources are supposed to work with. In this example Realtek
provides one driver version 8.040 for kernels 3.x, 2.6.x and 2.4.x.
I haven´t tried that driver myself, but it probably works fine with
Slackware 14.1 to as old releases as 8.1. If, for some reason it does not
work with an old 2.4 kernel, you could also from the same page download
version 1.07 of the same driver which also is supposed to work with
kernel 2.4.x.
Post by Jerry Peters
Try the latest stable kernel, I think it's 4.2.2,
You seem to assume that the kernel is just some component which can
easily be replaced in a distribution. Unfortunately that is not the case.
The kernel has tight bounds with the modules and glibc and each version
of Slackware comes with a matching set of kernel, modules and glibc. On a
customized system which has been running for some years you might also
have added some third party modules.
I've been replacing the stock slackware kernel with newer versions
practically since I started using Slackware in 1995. In all this
time, for dozens if not hundreds of different kernel versions, the
only issues I've every run into was with nvidia or ATI/AMD graphics
cards and the proprietary modules I was using for them.
Same here except it was a wireless card with a third party driver. Was
I ever glad when a driver was eventually moved into the standard
kernel.
Post by Jim Diamond
I'm genuinely sorry that you ran into issues, but I think your
experience is atypical, or you did something really wrong. I don't
think anyone should feel worried about trying a newer kernel any time
it so suits them(*). As long as they don't do something (silly) like
clobber their working kernel or its modules, and they configure lilo
(or grub or whatever) to allow them to boot their working kernel,
what's the big deal?
(*) Of course, if we are talking about a production computer running
an air traffic control system, a stock exchange, or some medical
equipment, that is a different story.
Compiling a kernel on a system with a different version of glibc than
the target system does sound like it is asking for trouble, but
advising people to compile the kernel on the system to which it will
be deployed is not a big constraint.
Why? The kernel build only uses glibc the same as any programs use
glibc. The kernel itself does not use glibc, it has its own
replacements for things like the c inititialization code and string
routines.
I do occasionally end up doing this -- my three machines usually all
run the same versions of software, but when I upgrade the distribution
I upgrade one of the machines at a time and always replace the
distributed kernel with my own custom kernel, which would have been
built with an older libc.
Mr. Mxytplk
2015-10-22 02:51:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Diamond
I've been replacing the stock slackware kernel with newer versions
practically since I started using Slackware in 1995. In all this time,
for dozens if not hundreds of different kernel versions, the only issues
I've every run into was with nvidia or ATI/AMD graphics cards and the
proprietary modules I was using for them.
Cheers.
Jim
Aside from my own incompetence those are also the only troubles I've had
with compiling and running the latest stable kernels.
--
http://oysbharljo.ddns.net
Mike Spencer
2015-10-18 04:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Peters
Post by Mike Spencer
Only hardware problem I've seen with Slackware (from 8.0 to 14.1,
numerous older boxen) is complete failure of 14.1 to manage the
Synaptics "clickpad" on my only bought-new laptop, an Acer E17.
Try the latest stable kernel, I think it's 4.2.2, I've seem some
recent work on Windows Precision TPs.
I upgraded to 3.something.stable. I was kinda waiting around for the
next Slackware release, expecting some kind of 4.x.stable. (The Acer
is a year old now.) If I travelled daily with the laptop, it would be
an embuggerance. But it's an occasional go fetch something big at a
fast wifi access point kinda thing.

Thanks for the pointer. May give it a shot when the days get shor and
the weather bad.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
notbob
2015-10-19 16:01:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
I *do* use things from Pasture, especially lprng. My elderly Brother
laser printer works fine under lprng, isn't supported by CUPS.
Have you tried the HL1440 driver? My old Brother laser printer (still
works!) used it and not only did I move from lprng to CUPS, but CUPS
made it easy. Heck, by 13.37, CUPS/Slack auto-magically configured
it. I did zip.

My newer Brother laser printer includes copy/FAX, but I was still able
to configure it with CUPS. I will admit to having a 32 bit system and
Brother only offers the driver for this newer printer in 32 bit. You
might wanna check out that lil' "gothchya" to see if that might be yer
problem. ;)

nb
Mike Spencer
2015-10-19 18:09:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by notbob
Post by Mike Spencer
I *do* use things from Pasture, especially lprng. My elderly Brother
laser printer works fine under lprng, isn't supported by CUPS.
Have you tried the HL1440 driver?
No. It's a Brother HL-641. I tried CUPS long ago -- several years ago,
Upfrade fro, Slack 8 to 10 maybe? -- with whatever drivers were then
available and reverted then to lprng.
Post by notbob
My old Brother laser printer (still works!) used it and not only did
I move from lprng to CUPS, but CUPS made it easy. Heck, by 13.37,
CUPS/Slack auto-magically configured it. I did zip.
I also reverted to Slack 11 from 12.1 on my main box when it became
obvious that some proprietary software wouldn't run under the new
glibc. The old printer runs off a parallel port on my equally old
wireless router and works fine.
Post by notbob
My newer Brother laser printer includes copy/FAX, but I was still able
to configure it with CUPS. I will admit to having a 32 bit system and
Brother only offers the driver for this newer printer in 32 bit. You
might wanna check out that lil' "gothchya" to see if that might be yer
problem. ;)
Well, main box is 32 bit, too, and there's no problem. :-) On the
rare occasion that I need to print something from the Slack 14.1
laptop, I justcopy it to the Slack 11 desktop first. And I don't do
much printing.

Eventually, I'll be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st c.,
upgrade to a newer Slack on the desktop, the printer won't live
forever. But "life-long learning" is supposed to be about learning
*new* stuff, not learning the same stuff over and over, only with new
knobs, wheels and levers.

But thanks for the pointer. Yr post saved for reference against 32/64
bit driver problems in future.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
bleak_fire_
2015-10-17 20:46:47 UTC
Permalink
on the great fire of Sat, 17 Oct 2015 06:53:52 +0000 (UTC), Henrik
Carlqvist leapt from the flames and screamed...
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Post by bleak_fire_
It was an issue with certain older integrated Realtek LANs which was
solved by using a later kernel and adding some kernel params to LILO.
Was it really necessary to upgrade the entire kernel? Maybe it would have
been enough to only download and compile the source for a new module?
Yes, it was. There were all kinds of success and failure stories on the
Internet about that chipset and when/how it would fail depending on the
(amount of) traffic, but what worked for me was the kernel upgrade, BIOS
settings change, and extra kernel parameters.
--
-bleak_fire_

fka "azz" et al since nine-seven
bleak_fire_
2015-10-17 00:20:16 UTC
Permalink
on the great fire of Fri, 16 Oct 2015 05:41:09 +0000 (UTC), Henrik
Carlqvist leapt from the flames and screamed...
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Today the new releases does not come as often and each release does not
contain as much new stuff. Still, as there are more packages, it probably
means more work to produce and test every new release.
They should really get rid of some of those older packages. For example
FTP, gFTP for instance shuts down when you try to access a secure site.

Plus about half of the packages cited by FreeSlack are those older
programs, including xv which is mocked by the FSF. If they got rid of
pasture and extra, unfree firmware, and removed references to unfree sites
(don't think there are any), it would be very easy for Slackware to reach
the purity needed for FSF approval, I'd imagine.

This would not just be about ethics, it would also give Slackware a real
popularity boost, and perhaps we would see more distros based on it or
increased academic use.
--
-bleak_fire_

fka "azz" et al since nine-seven
Henrik Carlqvist
2015-10-17 07:09:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by bleak_fire_
Plus about half of the packages cited by FreeSlack are those older
programs, including xv which is mocked by the FSF.
I really like xv myself, I use it almost every week to display some image
file or to take a screen shot. There are other application which I could
also use for this like gimp, but xv is quick to start. There are also
lightweight applications like display, but display lacks many features
that xv has. I have been using xv since I started with Slackware 3.0 and
before that I was using xv on Solaris. If xv was removed from Slackware I
would really miss it.
Post by bleak_fire_
If they got rid of pasture and extra, unfree firmware, and removed
references to unfree sites (don't think there are any), it would be
very easy for Slackware to reach the purity needed for FSF approval,
I'd imagine.
This would not just be about ethics, it would also give Slackware a real
popularity boost, and perhaps we would see more distros based on it or
increased academic use.
There are already many distributions based on Slackware and many of them
are minimal live systems which has removed packages from the Slackware
they were built upon. Distrowatch only lists 11 Slackware based
distributions at http://distrowatch.com/search.php?basedon=Slackware but
there are more shown at
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/
commons/1/1bLinux_Distribution_Timeline.svg

Basing a distribution upon another distribution is not so much about
which packages the start distribution contains. It is more about package
management, choice of basic stuff like kernel and init system. Making a
new distribution out of another distribution is about adding and removing
packages.

There is no lack of distributions to choose from, maybe there are more
distributions than Linux users :-)

regards Henrik
--
The address in the header is only to prevent spam. My real address is:
hc351(at)poolhem.se Examples of addresses which go to spammers:
***@localhost ***@localhost
Eli the Bearded
2015-10-21 21:36:20 UTC
Permalink
In alt.os.linux.slackware,
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
I really like xv myself, I use it almost every week to display some image
file or to take a screen shot. There are other application which I could
also use for this like gimp, but xv is quick to start. There are also
lightweight applications like display, but display lacks many features
that xv has. I have been using xv since I started with Slackware 3.0 and
before that I was using xv on Solaris. If xv was removed from Slackware I
would really miss it.
Have you tried feh? I don't think it was part of the standard install,
but instead something I added from slackbuilds, but feh has been my
favorite go-to image display tool for a long time. It doesn't do
screenshots, but I script xwd for that. (Eg, I have one script bound to
an ACPI key for whole screen capture, and a shell script that I use for
browser captures which does pipe-line editing for privacy reasons:
remove the bookmark bar and fill in the search box with a blank
rectangle.)

Some features of feh I love and use regularly:

* browse a collection of images, scaling down any too big for the screen
"feh -T fehonce"
~/.config/feh/themes entry:
fehonce --cycle-once --scale-down

* generation of thumbnail index images "feh -T mkindex *.jpg"
~/.config/feh/themes entry:
mkindex -iVO index.png

* sorting images into subdirectories "feh -T imgsort *"
uses "fehcopy" shell script (below)
~/.config/feh/themes entry (as one line):
imgsort --cycle-once --scale-down
--action1 "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/sort1 %f"
--action2 "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/sort2 %f"
[...]
--action9 "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/sort9 %f"

All of the "themes" work automatically if you call feh by their names,
eg with theme name as a symlink to feh.

Things I use less regularly:

* display and refresh every 5 minutes an election returns image
feh --reload 300 Loading Image...

* display a bunch of small images all at once (borderless, multiwindow)
feh -x -w icons/*

* preview frames of a video before making a gif or whatever (10 FPS,
or 0.1 seconde delay between frames, this is a feature I requested
somewhere around 15 years ago)

feh -D 0.1 frames/*

* display textual info about images without displaying them

feh -l /tmp/*.gif

* display an image index where images are clickable to view full size

feh -t /mnt/dcim/20151020/*

* display images named in a file (warning: feh will rewrite the file
to remove images that can't be displayed)

feh -f list.txt

I find the keybindings of feh intuitive, but I fully admit that could
just be me. <space> next image, <p> previous image, <q> quit now, <x>
close current window, <enter> run -A action, <0> ... <9> run the
--actionN action, <home> first image, <end> last image, <delete> remove
current image from list (will rewrite a -f filelist).

Elijah
------
my fehcopy shell script:
#!/bin/ksh
# from man feh:
# -A, --action ACTION
# Specify a string as an action to perform on the image.
# In
# slideshow or multiwindow modes, the action will be run when
# the
# enter key is pressed, in list mode, the action will be run
# for
# each file listed. The action will be executed by /bin/sh. Use
# for-
# mat specifiers to refer to image info. See FORMAT SPECIFIERS
# for
# examples
# Eg. feh -A "mv %f ~/images/%n" *
# --action1...9
# Extra actions which can be set and triggered using the
# appropriate
# number key.
#
#
# Make a feh theme, put in fehrc:
# pickuploads -A "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/upload %f"
# Then use with "feh -T pickuploads" or "ln -s `which feh`
# ~/bin/pickuploads"
#
# Make a complex feh theme, put in fehrc (all on one line):
# imgsort --action1 "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/sort1 %f"
# --action2 "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/sort2 %f"
# --action3 "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/sort3 %f"
# --action4 "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/sort4 %f"
# --action5 "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/sort5 %f"
# --action6 "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/sort6 %f"
# --action7 "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/sort7 %f"
# --action8 "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/sort8 %f"
# --action9 "fehcopy -d /var/tmp/sort9 %f"
#
# 30 March 2011

outdir=/var/tmp/feh
# these booleans are "empty" is false, "not-empty" is true
overwrite=
quiet=
vars=1
while [ $vars = 1 ] ; do
case "X$1" in
X-d) shift; outdir="$1"; shift ;;
X-q) shift; quiet=1 ;;
X-o) shift; overwrite=1 ;;
X-h|X--help) echo "$0: usage:"
echo " fehcopy [ OPTIONS ] file"
echo "Options:"
echo " -d DIR copy to directory DIR"
echo " (default is $outdir)"
echo " -o overwrite any existing file"
echo " (default is uniquely name files)"
echo " -q quiet operation"
echo ""
echo " Use as action to feh, eg:"
echo " feh -A 'fehcopy $f'"
echo "In feh <enter> will trigger action."
exit 2
;;
X-*) echo "$0: unknown option: $1"
exit 1 ;;
X?*) vars=0 ;;
X) echo "$0: no file specified!"
exit 1 ;;
esac
done

mkdir -p "$outdir"
infile="$1"

dirin=${infile%/*}
basein=${infile##*/}

uniq=

if [ X"$overwrite" = X ] ; then
# there is a race condition here, but I don't think it is likely
# to every be encountered
while [ -f "$outdir/$uniq$basein" ] ; do
if [ "X$uniq" = X ] ; then
n=1
uniq="$n-"
else
n=$(( $n + 1 ))
uniq="$n-"
fi
done
fi


if [ X"$quiet" = X ] ; then
echo cp "$infile" "$outdir/$uniq$basein"
fi
cp "$infile" "$outdir/$uniq$basein"
exit $?
Wayne Van Loon Sr.
2021-07-06 18:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Post by bleak_fire_
Plus about half of the packages cited by FreeSlack are those older
programs, including xv which is mocked by the FSF.
I really like xv myself, I use it almost every week to display some image
file or to take a screen shot. There are other application which I could
also use for this like gimp, but xv is quick to start. There are also
lightweight applications like display, but display lacks many features
that xv has. I have been using xv since I started with Slackware 3.0 and
before that I was using xv on Solaris. If xv was removed from Slackware I
would really miss it.
Post by bleak_fire_
If they got rid of pasture and extra, unfree firmware, and removed
references to unfree sites (don't think there are any), it would be
very easy for Slackware to reach the purity needed for FSF approval,
I'd imagine.
This would not just be about ethics, it would also give Slackware a real
popularity boost, and perhaps we would see more distros based on it or
increased academic use.
There are already many distributions based on Slackware and many of them
are minimal live systems which has removed packages from the Slackware
they were built upon. Distrowatch only lists 11 Slackware based
distributions at http://distrowatch.com/search.php?basedon=Slackware but
there are more shown at
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/
commons/1/1bLinux_Distribution_Timeline.svg
Basing a distribution upon another distribution is not so much about
which packages the start distribution contains. It is more about package
management, choice of basic stuff like kernel and init system. Making a
new distribution out of another distribution is about adding and removing
packages.
There is no lack of distributions to choose from, maybe there are more
distributions than Linux users :-)
regards Henrik
--
I too really liked XV. I recently built a system with Slackware64 current and noticed that XV is no longer there. Is there something comparable? Grab the whole screen or a window, crop, rotate, resize...?
Chris Elvidge
2021-07-06 18:48:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Van Loon Sr.
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Post by bleak_fire_
Plus about half of the packages cited by FreeSlack are those older
programs, including xv which is mocked by the FSF.
I really like xv myself, I use it almost every week to display some image
file or to take a screen shot. There are other application which I could
also use for this like gimp, but xv is quick to start. There are also
lightweight applications like display, but display lacks many features
that xv has. I have been using xv since I started with Slackware 3.0 and
before that I was using xv on Solaris. If xv was removed from Slackware I
would really miss it.
Post by bleak_fire_
If they got rid of pasture and extra, unfree firmware, and removed
references to unfree sites (don't think there are any), it would be
very easy for Slackware to reach the purity needed for FSF approval,
I'd imagine.
This would not just be about ethics, it would also give Slackware a real
popularity boost, and perhaps we would see more distros based on it or
increased academic use.
There are already many distributions based on Slackware and many of them
are minimal live systems which has removed packages from the Slackware
they were built upon. Distrowatch only lists 11 Slackware based
distributions at http://distrowatch.com/search.php?basedon=Slackware but
there are more shown at
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/
commons/1/1bLinux_Distribution_Timeline.svg
Basing a distribution upon another distribution is not so much about
which packages the start distribution contains. It is more about package
management, choice of basic stuff like kernel and init system. Making a
new distribution out of another distribution is about adding and removing
packages.
There is no lack of distributions to choose from, maybe there are more
distributions than Linux users :-)
regards Henrik
--
I too really liked XV. I recently built a system with Slackware64 current and noticed that XV is no longer there. Is there something comparable? Grab the whole screen or a window, crop, rotate, resize...?
slackpkg search xv
--
Chris Elvidge
England
Rich
2021-07-06 20:44:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Post by bleak_fire_
Plus about half of the packages cited by FreeSlack are those older
programs, including xv which is mocked by the FSF.
I really like xv myself, I use it almost every week to display some image
file or to take a screen shot. There are other application which I could
also use for this like gimp, but xv is quick to start. There are also
lightweight applications like display, but display lacks many features
that xv has. I have been using xv since I started with Slackware 3.0 and
before that I was using xv on Solaris. If xv was removed from Slackware I
would really miss it.
Post by bleak_fire_
If they got rid of pasture and extra, unfree firmware, and removed
references to unfree sites (don't think there are any), it would be
very easy for Slackware to reach the purity needed for FSF approval,
I'd imagine.
This would not just be about ethics, it would also give Slackware a real
popularity boost, and perhaps we would see more distros based on it or
increased academic use.
There are already many distributions based on Slackware and many of them
are minimal live systems which has removed packages from the Slackware
they were built upon. Distrowatch only lists 11 Slackware based
distributions at http://distrowatch.com/search.php?basedon=Slackware but
there are more shown at
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/
commons/1/1bLinux_Distribution_Timeline.svg
Basing a distribution upon another distribution is not so much about
which packages the start distribution contains. It is more about package
management, choice of basic stuff like kernel and init system. Making a
new distribution out of another distribution is about adding and removing
packages.
There is no lack of distributions to choose from, maybe there are more
distributions than Linux users :-)
regards Henrik
--
I too really liked XV. I recently built a system with Slackware64
current and noticed that XV is no longer there. Is there something
comparable? Grab the whole screen or a window, crop, rotate,
resize...?
XV has been moved to "extra":

https://mirrors.slackware.com/slackware/slackware64-current/extra/xv/
King Beowulf
2021-07-07 02:06:51 UTC
Permalink
...snip...
Post by Wayne Van Loon Sr.
I too really liked XV. I recently built a system with Slackware64
current and noticed that XV is no longer there. Is there something
comparable? Grab the whole screen or a window, crop, rotate, resize...?
Don't forget imagemagick included in slackware
https://imagemagick.org/index.php

$ magick [command] <source image> <options> <output image>

e.g. to just display

$ magick display [options] tux.png

Heck, you can even set up an alias(es) in ~/.bashrc to xv (left as an
exercise for the reader).

-kb
Mike
2021-07-07 09:47:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by King Beowulf
Don't forget imagemagick included in slackware
https://imagemagick.org/index.php
$ magick [command] <source image> <options> <output image>
$ magick display [options] tux.png
magick ATestPicture.png
magick: Command not found.

Which is odd, as I know I have it installed (and often use
convert/mogrify)
Post by King Beowulf
ls -la /usr/bin/convert
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4712 Jan 26 2011 /usr/bin/convert
Post by King Beowulf
ls -la /usr/bin/mogrify
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4712 Jan 26 2011 /usr/bin/mogrify

So ... I guess ...
Post by King Beowulf
ls -la /usr/bin/display
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4712 Jan 26 2011 /usr/bin/display

*There* it is (and it works, I didn't even realise that was
there, thank you for the prompt, and noted as an alternative
to XV which is my go-to lightweight viewer) :)

This is on Slackware 13.37 and imagemagick-6.6.6_10, not
sure where/how the "magick" comes in as a command -- not
on my system :(
--
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk
Aelius Gallus
2021-07-08 00:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by King Beowulf
Don't forget imagemagick included in slackware
https://imagemagick.org/index.php
$ magick [command] <source image> <options> <output image>
$ magick display [options] tux.png
magick ATestPicture.png
magick: Command not found.
Try:
$ display ATestPicture.png
Mike Spencer
2021-07-08 00:59:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by King Beowulf
Don't forget imagemagick included in slackware
https://imagemagick.org/index.php
$ magick [command] <source image> <options> <output image>
$ magick display [options] tux.png
magick ATestPicture.png
magick: Command not found.
Which is odd, as I know I have it installed (and often use
convert/mogrify)
[snip]
...not sure where/how the "magick" comes in as a command -- not on my
system :(
"man ImageMagick" will reveal that (for recent releases anyhow) the
components of the suite are invoked individually.

I use display(1) all the time to view, resize & crop images -- just
what the OP was asking for. Less useful for dealing with color mods
but maybe I just don't know how to do it properly.

Only flaw in the oinkment is that every release that I've used (since
Slack 8 I think) has some annoying little change or outright bug. But
it's still my go-to for basic image stuff.

I've used the netpbm(1) suite a lot too, even written one of my own
tools for it, and gimp(1) a few times for tricky stuff. But both
demand a lot more serious brain engagement that display.

OTOH, I miss improces from MS-DOS times. Limited but versatile. Can
you detect which member of this group:

http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/user/b/h/bhdavis/www/VCG.html

was inserted digitally with improces and DOS? (Okay, okay, you can
guess. :-)
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
King Beowulf
2021-07-08 13:51:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by King Beowulf
Don't forget imagemagick included in slackware
https://imagemagick.org/index.php
$ magick [command] <source image> <options> <output image>
$ magick display [options] tux.png
magick ATestPicture.png
magick: Command not found.
Which is odd, as I know I have it installed (and often use
convert/mogrify)
Post by King Beowulf
ls -la /usr/bin/convert
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4712 Jan 26 2011 /usr/bin/convert
Post by King Beowulf
ls -la /usr/bin/mogrify
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4712 Jan 26 2011 /usr/bin/mogrify
So ... I guess ...
Post by King Beowulf
ls -la /usr/bin/display
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4712 Jan 26 2011 /usr/bin/display
*There* it is (and it works, I didn't even realise that was there, thank
you for the prompt, and noted as an alternative to XV which is my go-to
lightweight viewer) :)
This is on Slackware 13.37 and imagemagick-6.6.6_10, not sure where/how
the "magick" comes in as a command -- not on my system :(
whoops...silly me! I'm on bleeding edge Slackware64-current and forgot
that many on USENET may still be using perfectly adequate older Slackware
versions.

With imagemagick-7.x the syntax changes a bit but the old programs are
still there as symlinks to 'magick' for compatibility.

'man imagemagick' will display the set of available sub-programs. For
imagemagick-7.1.0_2-x86_64-1 you have:

convert(1), compare(1), composite(1), conjure(1), identify(1),
import(1), magick(1), magick-script(1), montage(1), display(1),
animate(1), import(1), Magick++-config(1), MagickCore-config(1),
MagickWand-config(1)

-kb

Jerry Peters
2015-10-17 20:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by bleak_fire_
on the great fire of Fri, 16 Oct 2015 05:41:09 +0000 (UTC), Henrik
Carlqvist leapt from the flames and screamed...
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Today the new releases does not come as often and each release does not
contain as much new stuff. Still, as there are more packages, it probably
means more work to produce and test every new release.
They should really get rid of some of those older packages. For example
FTP, gFTP for instance shuts down when you try to access a secure site.
Plus about half of the packages cited by FreeSlack are those older
programs, including xv which is mocked by the FSF. If they got rid of
pasture and extra, unfree firmware, and removed references to unfree sites
(don't think there are any), it would be very easy for Slackware to reach
the purity needed for FSF approval, I'd imagine.
Who cares, AFAICT Pat doesn't and I'd guess most Slackware users don't
either or they'd be using one of the more "pure" distros. The last
thing slack needs is endless discussions (or rants) about what is and
isn't free.
Post by bleak_fire_
This would not just be about ethics, it would also give Slackware a real
popularity boost, and perhaps we would see more distros based on it or
increased academic use.
noel
2015-10-18 07:59:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Peters
Post by bleak_fire_
on the great fire of Fri, 16 Oct 2015 05:41:09 +0000 (UTC), Henrik
Carlqvist leapt from the flames and screamed...
Post by Henrik Carlqvist
Today the new releases does not come as often and each release does
not contain as much new stuff. Still, as there are more packages, it
probably means more work to produce and test every new release.
They should really get rid of some of those older packages. For example
FTP, gFTP for instance shuts down when you try to access a secure site.
Plus about half of the packages cited by FreeSlack are those older
programs, including xv which is mocked by the FSF. If they got rid of
pasture and extra, unfree firmware, and removed references to unfree
sites (don't think there are any), it would be very easy for Slackware
to reach the purity needed for FSF approval, I'd imagine.
Who cares, AFAICT Pat doesn't and I'd guess most Slackware users don't
either or they'd be using one of the more "pure" distros. The last thing
slack needs is endless discussions (or rants) about what is and isn't
free.
not forgetting whats not free in the U.S. , is free elsewhere, we dont
need politics brough into it, look at how popular RH was, when yhey moved
to anal FSF mode in fedora, it destroyed it, fuckbuntu wouldnt havea look
in if they hadnt messed with RH.
Clark Smith
2015-10-17 21:41:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by bleak_fire_
This would not just be about ethics, it would also give Slackware a real
popularity boost, and perhaps we would see more distros based on it or
increased academic use.
Do we really want to give Slackware a popularity boost? History
shows that, as Linux distributions become more and more popular, they
have a tendency to resemble the Microsoft offerings more and more
closely. Do we want that for Slackware? To each his or her own; I'd
rather see it disappear with dignity.
Martha Adams
2015-10-18 03:43:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clark Smith
Post by bleak_fire_
This would not just be about ethics, it would also give Slackware a real
popularity boost, and perhaps we would see more distros based on it or
increased academic use.
Do we really want to give Slackware a popularity boost? History
shows that, as Linux distributions become more and more popular, they
have a tendency to resemble the Microsoft offerings more and more
closely. Do we want that for Slackware? To each his or her own; I'd
rather see it disappear with dignity.
==============================
I can't see "disappear with dignity" in this oss/Slackware topic
environment. Disappear from the market? Disappear from my work which
is (really!) two decades of cumulated works, the Slackware tinkered up
to my personal need and preference, and long-set habits for how to
think and operate in that environment? If Slackware is to persist over
time is a *much* larger question than the few words to express it would
seem to imply. And I believe "disappear with dignity" is *no way*
going to actually happen. At least, not for Slackware, not for me.

There's a comment up this stream that older OSs become more like
Microsoft. It's true! To see that, look no farther than Slackware's
several screen managers, and it's much worse Out There. I see this as
a longterm twm user: *I can't see* why anyone would want one of those
"user-friendlies" and I sure don't. The accessibility of twm within
Slackware is one of my many reasons to stay with it.

Titeotwawki -- Martha Adams [Sat 2015 Oct 17]
Mike Spencer
2015-10-19 08:00:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martha Adams
There's a comment up this stream that older OSs become more like
Microsoft. It's true! To see that, look no farther than Slackware's
several screen managers, and it's much worse Out There. I see this as
a longterm twm user:....
Ooooh, yet another twm fan. (tips hat)
Post by Martha Adams
*I can't see* why anyone would want one of those
"user-friendlies" and I sure don't. The accessibility of twm within
Slackware is one of my many reasons to stay with it.
Same. I even liked uwm (Utrix wm) with no borders or other decoration.
I think it died because it wasn't Posix- (or something-) compliant.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
c***@yahoo.com
2015-10-18 06:24:21 UTC
Permalink
Wait. What????
``Freedom'' means they get to say what sites you can /mention/?
I'm starting to be proud of slackware for being /impure/.

Ron
Post by bleak_fire_
removed references to unfree sites
bleak_fire_
2015-10-19 05:56:17 UTC
Permalink
on the great fire of Sat, 17 Oct 2015 23:24:21 -0700,
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Wait. What????
``Freedom'' means they get to say what sites you can /mention/?
I'm starting to be proud of slackware for being /impure/.
I think the FSF requires that in order to be an approved distro.
--
-bleak_fire_

fka "azz" et al since nine-seven
Michael Black
2015-10-19 15:43:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by bleak_fire_
on the great fire of Sat, 17 Oct 2015 23:24:21 -0700,
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Wait. What????
``Freedom'' means they get to say what sites you can /mention/?
I'm starting to be proud of slackware for being /impure/.
I think the FSF requires that in order to be an approved distro.
Which is why Debian gets the FSF seal of approval.

But the FSF isn't what it used to be. It was all that was going on in the
area at one point, struggling to get the kernel together but having lots
of the peripheral stuff done, and then Linus came along and provided the
kernel. And ever since, it's really been Linux that is "in charge".

Michael
bleak_fire_
2015-10-21 08:33:42 UTC
Permalink
on the great fire of Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:43:05 -0400, Michael Black leapt
from the flames and screamed...
Post by Michael Black
Post by bleak_fire_
on the great fire of Sat, 17 Oct 2015 23:24:21 -0700,
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Wait. What????
``Freedom'' means they get to say what sites you can /mention/?
I'm starting to be proud of slackware for being /impure/.
I think the FSF requires that in order to be an approved distro.
Which is why Debian gets the FSF seal of approval.
But the FSF isn't what it used to be. It was all that was going on in the
area at one point, struggling to get the kernel together but having lots
of the peripheral stuff done, and then Linus came along and provided the
kernel. And ever since, it's really been Linux that is "in charge".
Michael
Debian isn't on the list:

http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

And yes, one of the requirements for "the FSF seal of approval" is to not
discuss unfree content:

"A free system distribution must not steer users towards obtaining any
nonfree information for practical use, or encourage them to do so. The
system should have no repositories for nonfree software and no specific
recipes for installation of particular nonfree programs. Nor should the
distribution refer to third-party repositories that are not committed to
only including free software; even if they only have free software today,
that may not be true tomorrow. Programs in the system should not suggest
installing nonfree plugins, documentation, and so on.

A free system distribution should be self-hosting. This means that you must
be able to develop and build the system with tools that the system provides
you. As a result, a free system distribution cannot include free software
that can only be built by using nonfree software."

http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html
--
-bleak_fire_

fka "azz" et al since nine-seven
Blow Job
2015-10-21 13:47:10 UTC
Permalink
it would be very easy for Slackware to reach the purity needed for FSF
approval, I'd imagine.
The FSF can eat shit. What does communism have to do with Slackware?
Thankfully, very little. Purity, my ass. It's all about viral forcible open
source "licenses." Eat shit and die, motherfuckers!
This would not just be about ethics
It isn't about ethics, it's about communism- which is intrinsically
unethical. It's about shoving your immorality and defective worldview down
other peoples throats in the name of knowing what's better for them than
they know for themselves. Militant atheism, communism, and Linux. Pick one.
it would also give Slackware a real popularity boost
Oh, horseshit!
and perhaps we would see more distros based on it or increased academic
use.
Nobody important cares about that. We like Slackware itself, not
derivatives. Slackware is as good as it gets.

Fuck you,

JB
Michael Black
2015-10-16 17:58:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by bleak_fire_
I don't know if this is the reason Slackware Stable hasn't been updated
since 14.1/2013, but if anyone has any information, I'd love to know more.
The Changelogs say nothing about "we're almost ready for an RC" when
usually they do by now.
A month or two ago, there was a comment indicating it's sort of steering
that way, you could miss it if you blinked. It was something like "not
quite, but almost" time to be talking about a new release.

Michael
Eef Hartman
2015-11-15 07:40:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Black
A month or two ago, there was a comment indicating it's sort of steering
that way, you could miss it if you blinked. It was something like "not
quite, but almost" time to be talking about a new release.
Sat Nov 14 21:35:57 UTC 2015
Please enjoy "almost a beta." Sorry we missed Friday the 13th this
time.

So he _is_ getting close to a beta now.
New updates to a/aaa_elflibs (5th build), but still no a/aaa_base
update yet.
But still, quite a large bunch of updates.
Michael Black
2015-11-15 15:37:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by Michael Black
A month or two ago, there was a comment indicating it's sort of steering
that way, you could miss it if you blinked. It was something like "not
quite, but almost" time to be talking about a new release.
Sat Nov 14 21:35:57 UTC 2015
Please enjoy "almost a beta." Sorry we missed Friday the 13th this
time.
So he _is_ getting close to a beta now.
New updates to a/aaa_elflibs (5th build), but still no a/aaa_base
update yet.
But still, quite a large bunch of updates.
Yes, that is quite a series of updates.

When I checked yesterday, the latest entry was November 6th.

Michael
Lew Pitcher
2015-11-15 16:22:12 UTC
Permalink
On Sunday November 15 2015 10:37, in alt.os.linux.slackware, "Michael Black"
Post by Michael Black
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by Michael Black
A month or two ago, there was a comment indicating it's sort of steering
that way, you could miss it if you blinked. It was something like "not
quite, but almost" time to be talking about a new release.
Sat Nov 14 21:35:57 UTC 2015
Please enjoy "almost a beta." Sorry we missed Friday the 13th this
time.
So he _is_ getting close to a beta now.
New updates to a/aaa_elflibs (5th build), but still no a/aaa_base
update yet.
But still, quite a large bunch of updates.
Yes, that is quite a series of updates.
When I checked yesterday, the latest entry was November 6th.
Michael
From the current changelog:

Sat Nov 14 21:35:57 UTC 2015
Please enjoy "almost a beta." Sorry we missed Friday the 13th this time.

New release looks /very/ close.
--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills, We Trust"
PGP public key available upon request
noel
2015-11-15 21:46:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by Michael Black
A month or two ago, there was a comment indicating it's sort of
steering that way, you could miss it if you blinked. It was something
like "not quite, but almost" time to be talking about a new release.
Sat Nov 14 21:35:57 UTC 2015 Please enjoy "almost a beta." Sorry we
missed Friday the 13th this
time.
So he _is_ getting close to a beta now.
New updates to a/aaa_elflibs (5th build), but still no a/aaa_base update
yet.
But still, quite a large bunch of updates.
why the panic and rush for a new release? you can use -current, or if you
prefere releases 50 times a year, go use fuckbuntu or fedora
Glyn Millington
2015-11-15 22:46:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by noel
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by Michael Black
A month or two ago, there was a comment indicating it's sort of
steering that way, you could miss it if you blinked. It was something
like "not quite, but almost" time to be talking about a new release.
Sat Nov 14 21:35:57 UTC 2015 Please enjoy "almost a beta." Sorry we
missed Friday the 13th this
time.
So he _is_ getting close to a beta now.
New updates to a/aaa_elflibs (5th build), but still no a/aaa_base update
yet.
But still, quite a large bunch of updates.
why the panic and rush for a new release? you can use -current, or if you
prefere releases 50 times a year, go use fuckbuntu or fedora
No panic, no rush - just a little gentle excitement and curiosity as to
what Pat will do next. And trying to second-guess Pat has been known to
be fun if you don't take it too seriously.

atb


Glyn
--
RTFM http://www.tldp.org/index.html
GAFC http://slackbook.org/ The Official Source :-)
STFW http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=alt.os.linux.slackware
JFGI http://jfgi.us/
noel
2015-11-21 00:26:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glyn Millington
No panic, no rush - just a little gentle excitement and curiosity as to
what Pat will do next. And trying to second-guess Pat has been known to
be fun if you don't take it too seriously.
Oh I agree, I'm sure Pat's been close to a release, and then heard about
all the whining on here, and gone " fuck em, I'll take a holiday and
release when I come back - some months later " :)
Michael Black
2015-11-21 00:39:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by noel
Post by Glyn Millington
No panic, no rush - just a little gentle excitement and curiosity as to
what Pat will do next. And trying to second-guess Pat has been known to
be fun if you don't take it too seriously.
Oh I agree, I'm sure Pat's been close to a release, and then heard about
all the whining on here, and gone " fuck em, I'll take a holiday and
release when I come back - some months later " :)
That's funny.

Except the whining just started recently, while there did seem to be a
long period before the whining where there were few or no updates to the
changelog.

Michael
noel
2015-11-21 11:15:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Black
Post by noel
Post by Glyn Millington
No panic, no rush - just a little gentle excitement and curiosity as
to what Pat will do next. And trying to second-guess Pat has been
known to be fun if you don't take it too seriously.
Oh I agree, I'm sure Pat's been close to a release, and then heard
about all the whining on here, and gone " fuck em, I'll take a holiday
and release when I come back - some months later " :)
That's funny.
Except the whining just started recently, while there did seem to be a
long period before the whining where there were few or no updates to the
changelog.
Michael
and theres plenty of times a lo of whinings gone on and the status quo
remains, Pat doesnt read this group, and for good reason too.
Eef Hartman
2016-01-13 09:47:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
So he _is_ getting close to a beta now.
Also, enjoy a shiny new LTS 4.4.0 kernel and consider this
14.2 beta 1.
Michael Black
2016-01-13 22:14:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
So he _is_ getting close to a beta now.
Also, enjoy a shiny new LTS 4.4.0 kernel and consider this
14.2 beta 1.
I better hurry and figure out what to do about a "new" computer, or I'll
be buying it after a new Slackware comes out.

Michael
Eef Hartman
2015-11-20 08:05:10 UTC
Permalink
It was something like "not quite, but almost" time to be talking
about a new release.
The newest set of updates puts the next release a bit further away,
but shows the goal he's working to: Pat will NOT be going the systemdr
way and to assure that he now dropped udev (which is getting integrated
into systemd) in favor of eudev/libgudev. That will have to be tested
well and maybe will need some other replacements cq recompilations.
notbob
2015-11-20 14:40:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
Pat will NOT be going the systemdr
Whew! Thank Bob!!

Take all the time you need, Pat. We are all with you. ;)

notbob
Doug713705
2015-11-20 17:50:07 UTC
Permalink
Le 20-11-2015, notbob nous expliquait dans
alt.os.linux.slackware
Post by notbob
Post by Eef Hartman
Pat will NOT be going the systemdr
Whew! Thank Bob!!
Take all the time you need, Pat. We are all with you. ;)
+1
--
Je ne connaîtrai rien de tes habitudes
Il se peut même que tu sois décédée
Mais j'demanderai ta main pour la couper
-- H.F. Thiéfaine, L'ascenceur de 22H43
Mike Spencer
2015-11-20 21:53:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug713705
Le 20-11-2015, notbob nous expliquait dans
alt.os.linux.slackware
Post by notbob
Post by Eef Hartman
Pat will NOT be going the systemdr
Whew! Thank Bob!!
Take all the time you need, Pat. We are all with you. ;)
+1
Same.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
noel
2015-11-21 00:28:04 UTC
Permalink
Le 20-11-2015, notbob nous expliquait dans alt.os.linux.slackware
Post by notbob
Post by Eef Hartman
Pat will NOT be going the systemdr
Whew! Thank Bob!!
Take all the time you need, Pat. We are all with you. ;)
+1
Same.
+3

I think Slackwares userbase will grow a bit if this is true - I know a
lot of admins in some serious ISP/Web hosts - that despise systemd.
Doug713705
2015-11-21 09:01:49 UTC
Permalink
Le 21-11-2015, noel nous expliquait dans
alt.os.linux.slackware
Post by noel
Post by notbob
Post by Eef Hartman
Pat will NOT be going the systemdr
Whew! Thank Bob!!
Take all the time you need, Pat. We are all with you. ;)
+1
Same.
+3
I think Slackwares userbase will grow a bit if this is true - I know a
lot of admins in some serious ISP/Web hosts - that despise systemd.
Ususally same admins laugh at 'the lack' of dependances resolution in
Slackware which is a huge problem for most of them.
--
dis-moi qui tu suis... je te dirais qui je hais !
-- H.F. Thiéfaine, L'agence des amants de madame Müller
noel
2015-11-21 11:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Le 21-11-2015, noel nous expliquait dans alt.os.linux.slackware
Post by noel
Post by notbob
Post by Eef Hartman
Pat will NOT be going the systemdr
Whew! Thank Bob!!
Take all the time you need, Pat. We are all with you. ;)
+1
Same.
+3
I think Slackwares userbase will grow a bit if this is true - I know a
lot of admins in some serious ISP/Web hosts - that despise systemd.
Ususally same admins laugh at 'the lack' of dependances resolution in
Slackware which is a huge problem for most of them.
for some yeah, coz their just lazy arseholes and run fukbuntu or debian
or some other antiquated software distro, for those that do care though,
entirely different matter, and I know many of them do, it startsd out
small, 1500 servers running RHEL, all of a sudden new servers commisioned
are slackware, over time hardware has cost depreciated to $0 and is
replaced, server by server, over time, then afte4r some time there may be
just 500 left on RHEL, and in few more years 200, then 100, then ...all
gone, unless their data centres all burn down overnight, its true there
wont be any overnight mass OS changes...
Sylvain Robitaille
2015-11-23 05:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug713705
Ususally same admins laugh at 'the lack' of dependances resolution in
Slackware which is a huge problem for most of them.
Not the good ones. The good ones are able to deal with that.

They might have *other* reasons, though, to not use Slackware, such
as some commercial application required by the employer, but that the
vendor refuses to support unless it's running on a RedHat-like system.
I've been in that situation (and others where an external vendor
somehow determines the OS we were using).

I've also had colleagues who genuinely like Kickstart (specifically
with cobbler), and the ability it provides to rapidly deploy large
numbers of (usually identical) systems in a small amount of time.
In some environments that matters, and you have people who would
otherwise like to use Slackware (or would at least consider using
it) using something based on RedHat in order to have that ability.
Not because they're too lazy (or don't know how) to use Slackware's
tagfiles (in fact, setting up kickstart with something like cobbler
is a *lot* more work initially than setting up tagfiles would be,
but it saves a significant amount of repeated work in the long run),
but because tagfiles provide only *some* of the same functionality.

For some environments, Slackware provides all that's needed, but
for others something else is simply better suited. A smart system
administrator will consider all the options that are available and
make a choice based on site-specific needs.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille ***@therockgarden.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug713705
2015-11-23 17:29:21 UTC
Permalink
Le 23-11-2015, Sylvain Robitaille nous expliquait dans
alt.os.linux.slackware
Post by Sylvain Robitaille
For some environments, Slackware provides all that's needed, but
for others something else is simply better suited. A smart system
administrator will consider all the options that are available and
make a choice based on site-specific needs.
Sounds good and that's why Slackware, like some others, needs to follow
it's own path while most distros follow what is presented like the only
possible path ;-)
--
Mais je remonte mon col, j'appuie sur le starter
Et je vais voir ailleurs, encore plus loin ailleurs...
-- H.F. Thiéfaine, Autoroutes jeudi d'automne
notbob
2015-11-21 15:49:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by noel
lot of admins in some serious ISP/Web hosts - that despise systemd.
We (I) would love to hear some of these stories about admins that
dislike systemd and why. Some real issues. Seems media jes
concentrates on systemd users parroting the virtues of systemd or
critics who have no real-time use experience with the beast. It would
be interesting to hear from real users experiencing real problems.

Care to share? ;)

nb
Eef Hartman
2015-11-21 16:03:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by notbob
We (I) would love to hear some of these stories about admins that
dislike systemd and why. Some real issues. Seems media jes
concentrates on systemd users parroting the virtues of systemd or
critics who have no real-time use experience with the beast.
It's not MY problem anymore but the Technical University of Delft is
using RHEL 6 (and even some 5) servers and CentOS 6 clients in the
university network as they dislike (not just systemd, there seem to be
many more problems with it) RHEL/CentOS 7 - the one with systemd.

Also, just before I retired, clients with openSUSE 12.3 (with systemd)
had their Linux replaced by CentOS 6 (without).
There were big problems with openSUSE, like thunderbird not working,
it crashed with a segment violation). Version 11.3 ran fine, but was
getting out of date and the update to 12.3 never really worked out.
So as I was retiring (I did most of the openSUSE management) my
colleague decided to replace it with CentOS 6 (the free version of
RHEL 6). When 7.0 came out he decided to NOT switch to it, one of the
reasons was the amount of pure 32-bit commercial applications we still
were running (and still needed), RHEL/CentOS 7 is 64-bits only, you
can RUN but not compile, 32-bits programs in it.

PS: I used to be the system manager of the Computer Engineering group
OF that university (and had contacts with the central ICT department).
CE is about design of chips, used IN advanced computers, for which
program development is a must.
Eef Hartman
2015-11-04 17:18:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by bleak_fire_
I don't know if this is the reason Slackware Stable hasn't been updated
since 14.1/2013, but if anyone has any information, I'd love to know more.
The indications are that the next release will be a minor one: 14.2
as that's the version of these packages in -current:
a/aaa_elflibs
a/etc
a/pkgtools
but there is no update for a/aaa_base-14.1 yet (which mostly is an
indication a release is near) and, as you said, no hints about a beta
or rc version, so I don't think the next release will be soon (like
this month or even this year).

On the other hand, the updates now do appear regulary in -current, so
they're still working on it. It is already the longest gap in
Slackware release history (two years now), though.
Michael Black
2015-11-04 23:39:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by bleak_fire_
I don't know if this is the reason Slackware Stable hasn't been updated
since 14.1/2013, but if anyone has any information, I'd love to know more.
The indications are that the next release will be a minor one: 14.2
a/aaa_elflibs
a/etc
a/pkgtools
but there is no update for a/aaa_base-14.1 yet (which mostly is an
indication a release is near) and, as you said, no hints about a beta
or rc version, so I don't think the next release will be soon (like
this month or even this year).
On the other hand, the updates now do appear regulary in -current, so
they're still working on it. It is already the longest gap in
Slackware release history (two years now), though.
So I guess I should hurry and buy whatever "new" computer I'm going to
buy, so my installing Linux on it will cause a new release to come very
soon after.

Michael
Eef Hartman
2015-11-05 11:21:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Black
So I guess I should hurry and buy whatever "new" computer I'm going to
buy, so my installing Linux on it will cause a new release to come very
soon after.
Not very likely, but you can always use the -current set of packages,
then you're as close as can be.
And it seems to be quite stable/trustworthy now.
Grant
2015-11-06 17:56:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by Michael Black
So I guess I should hurry and buy whatever "new" computer I'm going to
buy, so my installing Linux on it will cause a new release to come very
soon after.
Not very likely, but you can always use the -current set of packages,
then you're as close as can be.
And it seems to be quite stable/trustworthy now.
Yes, I've been running -current on my NAS box for months now

Use:
upgradepkg /home/mirror/slackware64-current/slackware64/*/*.t?z

to upgrade, assuming local mirror at /home/mirror.

Grant.
j***@wexfordpress.com
2015-12-01 20:49:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by bleak_fire_
Hi,
The last stable release of Slackware was 14.1, which was in late 2013.
It is my understanding that Slackware releases are mostly a "when needed"
and "bug free" thing, and trying to get things working and secure for a
release.
1. I had to install the -current kernel packages in order to get hardware
to work properly.
2. The FileZilla FTP client is forced to be 4 versions behind due to
Slackware's outdated gcc/g++ version. I'm not risking messing around with
current's development packages.
3. I have installed Firefox Beta locally as well as TBB due to Slackware
using the ESR. Whether older versions or newer versions are good for some
addons and bad for others depends on the addon in question. It appears
however that -current has switched back to Firefox stable and does not use
ESR.
My *guess* as to what's going on is that perhaps the development team is
waiting for a time when everything can be considered secure and ready for
production. However, in the world of Heartbleed, Poodle, and rolling
releases the security updates seem to be ongoing, and I'm wondering if
there will ever be a time a Linux distribution will be "ready for
production".
I don't know if this is the reason Slackware Stable hasn't been updated
since 14.1/2013, but if anyone has any information, I'd love to know more.
The Changelogs say nothing about "we're almost ready for an RC" when
usually they do by now.
Anyone know what's going on?
--
-bleak_fire_
fka "azz" et al since nine-seven
coming late to this discussion.

Here are some needs from my perspective:

1 Add a version of Scribus. Version 1.5.0 is a "development" version which is de facto a stable version. A true stable version, 1.6.0 will probably be available in a month or three. I use 1.5.1 which is the true development version leading to 1.6.0.

2 Delete the antique version of the TeX distro. It is many years behind. Instead direct potential users to the latest version of TeXLive (currently 2015 version) since it is judged to be too bulky for inclusion in the Slackware distro.

3. Update Qt to at least 5.2 and also its dependencies.

I manage to keep Inkscape, Scribus and Gimp up to date, more or less, by overnight compiles set up in cron daily.

The kind consideration of the powers that be is respectfully requested.

John Culleton
Slackware since it came on floppies.
Eef Hartman
2015-12-01 21:19:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@wexfordpress.com
2 Delete the antique version of the TeX distro. It is many years behind. Instead direct potential users to the latest version of TeXLive (currently 2015 version) since it is judged to be too bulky for inclusion in the Slackware distro.
Potential users can do that anyway. But a "lightweigth" version of TeX
seems to be needed for other parts of the Slackware release (according
to Robby Workman) so it (tetex 3.0) will not get removed (hell, it is
less than 80 MB).
Robby also seems to have created a SlackBuild for TexLive
Post by j***@wexfordpress.com
3. Update Qt to at least 5.2 and also its dependencies.
But that will need a complete update to KDE 5 too, making it another year
until the next release (the major number of KDE is the QT release it's
based ON)
Post by j***@wexfordpress.com
The kind consideration of the powers that be is respectfully requested.
Those powers do NOT read this news conference, so any wishes _here_ will
not be seen nor acted on.
Robby Workman
2016-01-11 22:50:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by j***@wexfordpress.com
2 Delete the antique version of the TeX distro. It is many years behind. Instead direct potential users to the latest version of TeXLive (currently 2015 version) since it is judged to be too bulky for inclusion in the Slackware distro.
Potential users can do that anyway. But a "lightweigth" version of TeX
seems to be needed for other parts of the Slackware release (according
to Robby Workman) so it (tetex 3.0) will not get removed (hell, it is
less than 80 MB).
Robby also seems to have created a SlackBuild for TexLive
I'm about ready to give up on maintaining TeXLive - there's a bug in
the 2014 release (almost surely a packaging bug that's my fault), and
I have thus far been unable to solve it. Most people obviously haven't
encountered it, but it's a showstopper for those who have.
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by j***@wexfordpress.com
3. Update Qt to at least 5.2 and also its dependencies.
But that will need a complete update to KDE 5 too, making it another year
until the next release (the major number of KDE is the QT release it's
based ON)
Agreed. Not going to happen this time.
Post by Eef Hartman
Post by j***@wexfordpress.com
The kind consideration of the powers that be is respectfully requested.
Those powers do NOT read this news conference, so any wishes _here_ will
not be seen nor acted on.
Well, I do try to check in here occasionally, so yeah, I do read stuff
and pass along relevant items to Pat. Absence of evidence is not the
same as evidence of absence ;-)

-RW
Eef Hartman
2016-01-13 09:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robby Workman
Well, I do try to check in here occasionally, so yeah, I do read stuff
and pass along relevant items to Pat. Absence of evidence is not the
same as evidence of absence ;-)
Yes, and thank you for the good work. Very sometimes Eric "alien"
Hameleers checks in here too, although I haven't seen him in a while.
Eef Hartman
2015-12-01 21:50:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@wexfordpress.com
John Culleton
Slackware since it came on floppies.
BTW: my first Slackware was release 1.1.2 (1994) and then it _did_
install from floppies, the contents of each you had to download first.
It can still be found on the net, i.e.
http://taper.alienbase.nl/mirrors/slackware/slackware-1.1.2
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