How do *you* install Slackware

Post by Joseph Rosevear
1. I download the CD iso images, burn them to CDs, boot the first CD,
and install.
2. Same as above, but download a single DVD iso image and burn to a
DVD.
3. I download the CD iso images and use them directly, booting the
first image using Grub.
4. Same as above, but download a single DVD iso image.
5. I clone an existing installation using rsync, then modify it as
needed using patches and scripts.
6. I never install, I upgrade.
7. Some other way.

7 - where 7 involves a bootable external device.

John Forkosh

2023-03-14 11:32:08 UTC

1. I download the CD iso images, burn them to CDs,
boot the first CD, and install.
2. Same as above, but download a single DVD iso image
and burn to a DVD.
3. I download the CD iso images and use them directly,
booting the first image using Grub.
4. Same as above, but download a single DVD iso image.
5. I clone an existing installation using rsync,
then modify it as needed using patches and scripts.
6. I never install, I upgrade.
7. Some other way.

7. where 7 involves a bootable external device.
David Robley

7. (a) copy the entire slackware directory, i.e.,
rsync -av --delete \
rsync://mirrors.kernel.org/slackware/slackware64-current/ \
slackware64-mylocalcopy/
(b) use usb-and-pxe-installers/usbimg2disk.sh to create
a bootable install stick

For what purpose(s) are you taking a "survey"?

--
John Forkosh ( mailto: ***@f.com where j=john and f=forkosh )

Joseph Rosevear

2023-03-14 22:39:04 UTC

Post by John Forkosh

7. where 7 involves a bootable external device.
David Robley

There is no formality to this--sorry if it sounded otherwise. I'm just
curious, and I thought it would be a good conversation starter.

I used to use method 1. Now I use 3 and 5. I wondered if I was alone in
my methodology or if I had company. It sounds like I have company, but
there is more variation than I expected.

I was reading the Slackware FAQ last night. One of the questions in it
is about installing via FTP. The answer given doesn't tell the whole
story. No you can't install via FTP, but you can download iso files via
ftp, then boot and install without burning a disk. Therefore, it seems to
me that the responses to this survey could be useful information to new
and seasoned users.

Jimmy Johnson

2023-03-15 05:33:14 UTC

Post by Joseph Rosevear
Therefore, it seems to
me that the responses to this survey could be useful information to new
and seasoned users.

Okay:

!. Get a USB flash drive that can hold the Slackware.iso
Using Gparted make a DOS partition table on the USB flash drive, format
it fat32 and make boot flag.

2. Open file manager where the down loaded slackware.iso is and Ctrl+F4
to open console where the .iso is, now # md5sum slackware.iso to check
the md5sum

3. Put USB flash drive into computer and # fdisk -l to get name of the
"unmounted" USB flash drive

4. dd bs=4M if=slackware.iso of=/dev/sdb
In the above use the real name of the .iso and the real name of the
flash drive, don't mess up the spacing and hit the enter key

5. Make sure your BIOS is set to boot the USB drive, boot flash drive
and install Slackware. As long as the USB flash drive is not corrupted
you can reuse it.

--
Jimmy Johnson

Slackware64 Current - AMD A8-7600 at sda7
Registered Linux User #380263

Lew Pitcher

2023-03-14 14:28:31 UTC

These days, when I install a new Slackware system to bare metal, I
#2 Download the DVD iso image and burn it to a DVD (or other suitable
media). I also keep the iso as a file on one of my systems, to be NFS
shared and loop-mounted, so that I can either netboot from that iso,
or can mount and extract components (like single packages) from it.

For my existing Slackware systems, I /upgrade/ from the downloaded
iso. First, I drop into single-user, then I mount the iso (or DVD)
and start upgrading packages as per Slackware's instructions in
UPGRADE.TXT. (FWIW, before I upgradepkg, I run a set of scripts that
tell me which existing packages are absent from the upgrade, which
are present but unchanged, or present with upgrade path, and which
are new to the upgrade. I plan my upgrade, including finding replacements
for the dropped packages, from this list.)

HTH

--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills We Trust"

Jim Diamond

2023-03-14 14:58:19 UTC

<snip>

Post by Lew Pitcher
For my existing Slackware systems, I /upgrade/ from the downloaded
iso.

<snip>

A while back there was some discussion about whether /etc/mtab is (or
should be) a file or a link to /proc/mounts (or /proc/self/mounts).

So... please chime in... What is /etc/mtab on your systems, upgraded and
fresh installs?

Jim

Rich

2023-03-14 19:11:58 UTC

Post by Jim Diamond
<snip>

Post by Lew Pitcher
For my existing Slackware systems, I /upgrade/ from the downloaded
iso.

<snip>
A while back there was some discussion about whether /etc/mtab is (or
should be) a file or a link to /proc/mounts (or /proc/self/mounts).
So... please chime in... What is /etc/mtab on your systems, upgraded and
fresh installs?

Brand new fresh Slack-15 install (this past weekend).

/etc/mtab is a symlink to /proc/mounts

Mike Spencer

2023-03-15 04:19:02 UTC

Post by Jim Diamond
A while back there was some discussion about whether /etc/mtab is (or
should be) a file or a link to /proc/mounts (or /proc/self/mounts).
So... please chime in... What is /etc/mtab on your systems, upgraded and
fresh installs?

I think I was the OP on that. Slackware 15 installed from bootable
DVD created from d/l iso. Came up with mtab as link to /proc/mounts.

I often mount laptop or 2nd desktop on main box's fs, for backup or
other purposes. Annoyance that root has to umount them.

Another poster remarked on having scripts to pre-identify how an
upgrade would/might break his setup. I've tried to avoid those
worries with always a new install, then reconstructing (with much
bother as my pleas for help here reflect) the numerous idiosyncrasies
of my setup.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

Jim Diamond

2023-03-17 20:14:03 UTC

I think I was the OP on that. Slackware 15 installed from bootable
DVD created from d/l iso. Came up with mtab as link to /proc/mounts.
I often mount laptop or 2nd desktop on main box's fs, for backup or
other purposes. Annoyance that root has to umount them.
Another poster remarked on having scripts to pre-identify how an
upgrade would/might break his setup. I've tried to avoid those
worries with always a new install, then reconstructing (with much
bother as my pleas for help here reflect) the numerous idiosyncrasies
of my setup.

I was really hoping the guy who talked about his many systems (some clean
installs, some upgrades) would chime in. But so far, no luck.

Henrik Carlqvist

2023-03-18 10:37:33 UTC

Post by Jim Diamond
I was really hoping the guy who talked about his many systems (some
clean installs, some upgrades) would chime in. But so far, no luck.

I have many systems, but I don't think I am that guy as all my systems
are clean installs (with patches and some extra packages applied).

On my 14.2 systems and earlier /etc/mtab is a file.
On my 15.0 system /etc/mtab is a symbolic link.

I have not had the need to umount nfs as a normal user as I make /etc/
rc.d/rc.autofs executable on my systems and instead access nfs exports
by /net/<the_other_host_name>.

I think the above is the default behavior with the automounter running,
but I have made some customizations to /etc/auto.master so I can't say
for sure. In my /etc/auto.master there is a line:

/net /etc/auto.net

I am rather sure that /etc/auto.net has not been modified by me, but this
is what it looks like:

-8<-------------------------
#
# Sample auto.master file
# This is an automounter map and it has the following format
# key [ -mount-options-separated-by-comma ] location
# For details of the format look at autofs(5).
#
#/misc /etc/auto.misc
#
# NOTE: mounts done from a hosts map will be mounted with the
# "nosuid" and "nodev" options unless the "suid" and "dev"
# options are explicitly given.
#
#/net -hosts
# -hosts does no longer work with autofs 5.0.8
/net /etc/auto.net
#
# Include /etc/auto.master.d/*.autofs
#
+dir:/etc/auto.master.d
#
# Include central master map if it can be found using
# nsswitch sources.
#
# Note that if there are entries for /net or /misc (as
# above) in the included master map any keys that are the
# same will not be seen as the first read key seen takes
# precedence.
#
+auto.master.slack150
bash-5.1$ ls /etc/auto.master.d/
bash-5.1$ md5sum /etc/auto.net
9113a0a4baccab3bf5cc9a476476d9c6 /etc/auto.net
bash-5.1$ cat /etc/auto.net
#!/bin/bash

# This file must be executable to work! chmod 755!

# Look at what a host is exporting to determine what we can mount.
# This is very simple, but it appears to work surprisingly well

key="$1"

# add "nosymlink" here if you want to suppress symlinking local
filesystems
# add "nonstrict" to make it OK for some filesystems to not mount
opts="-fstype=nfs,hard,nodev,nosuid"

for P in /bin /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin
do
for M in showmount kshowmount
do
if [ -x $P/$M ]
then
SMNT=$P/$M
break 2
fi
done
done

[ -x $SMNT ] || exit 1

# Newer distributions get this right
SHOWMOUNT="$SMNT --no-headers -e $key"

$SHOWMOUNT | LC_ALL=C cut -d' ' -f1 | LC_ALL=C sort -u | \
awk -v key="$key" -v opts="$opts" -- '
BEGIN { ORS=""; first=1 }
{ if (first) { print opts; first=0 }; print " \\\n\t" $1,
key ":" $1 }
END { if (!first) print "\n"; else exit 1 }
' | sed 's/#/\\#/g'

-8<-------------------------

Whenever someone or something tries to cd to /net/the_other_hostname the
automounter calls the above executable script which uses showmount to see
what that host exports by NFS and the automounter mounts those
directories. When the directories are no longer in use the aoutmounter
will umount them after some time.

regards Henrik

Lew Pitcher

2023-03-18 16:06:30 UTC

I think I was the OP on that. Slackware 15 installed from bootable
DVD created from d/l iso. Came up with mtab as link to /proc/mounts.
I often mount laptop or 2nd desktop on main box's fs, for backup or
other purposes. Annoyance that root has to umount them.
Another poster remarked on having scripts to pre-identify how an
upgrade would/might break his setup. I've tried to avoid those
worries with always a new install, then reconstructing (with much
bother as my pleas for help here reflect) the numerous idiosyncrasies
of my setup.

I was really hoping the guy who talked about his many systems (some clean
installs, some upgrades) would chime in. But so far, no luck.

That might be me?

As I said before, bare metal installs I usually perform directly from
bootable media (DVD or usb hard drive). Upgrades, I perform from from
DVD or hard drive, with the assistance of a number of home-grown scripts.

As I do not perform a Slackware "full install" on any of my systems. I
install only what I use, save for libraries, of which I install all that
are supplied. That means that a "full upgrade" is out of the question.

So, I used my IT background (retired programmer/systems programmer/analyst/architect)
to craft some scripts that would assist in the upgrade. One script figures
out the differences between the current installation and the "installation
after upgrade", pointing out installed packages that have been dropped,
installed packages that have not changed, installed packages that have
an upgrade, and new packages that don't have an installed equivalent,

From there, I can identify what I want to do with each of the packages,
and a second script builds a set of "installation scripts" that will
perform the installation in an orderly manner.

This set of scripts also manages a list of patches and local packages
that the upgrade process might need to affect.

For the most part, the scripts are a success, in that I can do an
ordered upgrade with no problems. For instance, I upgraded from 13.0
to 14.0 (skipping 13.1 and 13.37) successfully, using these scripts.

--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills We Trust"

Lew Pitcher

2023-03-18 17:39:53 UTC

I think I was the OP on that. Slackware 15 installed from bootable
DVD created from d/l iso. Came up with mtab as link to /proc/mounts.
I often mount laptop or 2nd desktop on main box's fs, for backup or
other purposes. Annoyance that root has to umount them.
Another poster remarked on having scripts to pre-identify how an
upgrade would/might break his setup. I've tried to avoid those
worries with always a new install, then reconstructing (with much
bother as my pleas for help here reflect) the numerous idiosyncrasies
of my setup.

I was really hoping the guy who talked about his many systems (some clean
installs, some upgrades) would chime in. But so far, no luck.

That might be me?

[snip]

For what it's worth, I currently run three Slackware systems, all at 64bit
Slackware 14.2. One runs my internet-facing services, while a second runs
my PBX and a third provides my desktop processing needs. I've used my upgrade
scripts on two of the three (the PBX started life as 64bit Slackware 14.2)
since the days of 32bit Slackware 11.

I'd rather not discuss the internals of those home-grown upgrade scripts here,
but I welcome email inquiries.

--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills We Trust"

Jim Diamond

2023-03-20 19:09:58 UTC

I think I was the OP on that. Slackware 15 installed from bootable
DVD created from d/l iso. Came up with mtab as link to /proc/mounts.
I often mount laptop or 2nd desktop on main box's fs, for backup or
other purposes. Annoyance that root has to umount them.
Another poster remarked on having scripts to pre-identify how an
upgrade would/might break his setup. I've tried to avoid those
worries with always a new install, then reconstructing (with much
bother as my pleas for help here reflect) the numerous idiosyncrasies
of my setup.

I was really hoping the guy who talked about his many systems (some clean
installs, some upgrades) would chime in. But so far, no luck.

That might be me?

Indeed it is.

Post by Lew Pitcher
As I said before, bare metal installs I usually perform directly from
bootable media (DVD or usb hard drive). Upgrades, I perform from from
DVD or hard drive, with the assistance of a number of home-grown scripts.

<much snippage>

What you didn't address was the question I asked. Let me restate, with a
bit more detail...

Since you seem to have multiple systems, some upgraded and some fresh
installs, is it the case that /etc/mtab is always a symlink on the fresh
install systems and always a file on systems upgraded from 14.2 ?

(Perhaps answering this is too much effort for the perceived value, but if
it isn't, I'm curious, and perhaps others are as well.)

Jim

Rich

2023-03-20 22:00:34 UTC

Post by Jim Diamond
What you didn't address was the question I asked. Let me restate, with a
bit more detail...
Since you seem to have multiple systems, some upgraded and some fresh
installs, is it the case that /etc/mtab is always a symlink on the fresh
install systems and always a file on systems upgraded from 14.2 ?
(Perhaps answering this is too much effort for the perceived value, but if
it isn't, I'm curious, and perhaps others are as well.)

You can answer this question yourself.

Go to your friendly slackware mirror, and within the 15.0 file tree,
browse to the source/installe/sources/initrd directory.

Download the skeleton_initrd.tar.gz file.

Decompress the tar.gz file somewhere, and within the unpacked contents,
navigate to the usr/lib/setup directory.

View the 'setup' file in usr/lib/setup.

search for 'mtab' in the 'setup' file.

You will find this within the setup code:

# On a new system, make /etc/mtab a symlink to /proc/mounts:
if [ ! -r $T_PX/etc/mtab ]; then
mkdir -p $T_PX/etc
( cd $T_PX/etc ; ln -sf /proc/mounts mtab )
fi

What that says is if there is no "/etc/mtab' file on the disk being
installed onto, then create mtab as a sysmlink to /proc/mounts.

So, for a fresh install, /etc/mtab will always be a symlink to
/proc/mounts.

For an upgrade, with an existing /etc/mtab, the existing /etc/mtab will
be untouched.

For an upgrade, without an existing /etc/mtab (unlikely, but someone
could rm it before beginning the install) a symlink from /etc/mtab to
/proc/mounts will also be created.

Jim Diamond

2023-03-22 20:47:56 UTC

Post by Rich

How curious... I did a fresh install, and yet my mtab is a file. I wonder
what I might have done to cause this to happen. Perhaps a stray neutrino
hit some gate in my CPU or some bit in a register just at the wrong moment.

Anyway, thanks for the detailed pointer to the code which creates the
link.

Jim

Jimmy Johnson

2023-03-23 01:20:11 UTC

Post by Jim Diamond
How curious... I did a fresh install, and yet my mtab is a file.

Yes, in 14.2, 15.0 and Current mtab is a file and not a folder. I have
all 3 installed and I checked.

--
Jimmy Johnson
Slackware Current - AMD A8-7600 at sda7
Registered Linux User #380263

Henrik Carlqvist

2023-03-23 06:44:46 UTC

Post by Jimmy Johnson

Post by Jim Diamond
How curious... I did a fresh install, and yet my mtab is a file.

Yes, in 14.2, 15.0 and Current mtab is a file and not a folder. I have
all 3 installed and I checked.

For me, on all Slackware 15 fresh installs, /etc/mtab is a symbolic link:

-8<--------------------------
bash-5.1$ ls -al /etc/mtab
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Jul 17 2022 /etc/mtab -> /proc/mounts
bash-5.1$ cat /etc/slackware-version
Slackware 15.0
-8<--------------------------

On 14.2 and older it is a file:

-8<--------------------------
bash-4.3$ ls -al /etc/mtab
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 735 Mar 19 11:31 /etc/mtab
bash-4.3$ cat /etc/slackware-version
Slackware 14.2
-8<--------------------------

On Slackware 15.0, /etc/mtab will become a file if the symbolic link is
removed. From /etc/rc.d/rc.S:

-8<--------------------------
# If /etc/mtab is a symlink (probably to /proc/mounts) then we don't want
to mess with it.
if [ ! -L /etc/mtab -o ! -r /etc/mtab ]; then
# /etc/mtab is a file (or doesn't exist), so we'll handle it the old
way:
# Any /etc/mtab that exists here is old, so we start with a new one:
/bin/rm -f /etc/mtab{,~,.tmp} && /bin/touch /etc/mtab
-8<--------------------------

regards Henrik

Jim Diamond

2023-03-25 18:37:53 UTC

Post by Jim Diamond
How curious... I did a fresh install, and yet my mtab is a file.

Yes, in 14.2, 15.0 and Current mtab is a file and not a folder. I have
all 3 installed and I checked.

As Henrik (and maybe others) have pointed out, the "fresh install" code
should make it a link.

But when you say "not a folder" (and I assume you mean "not a directory"),
that isn't the issue. It might be a symlink to /proc/mounts.

Were your 15.0 and current systems upgraded from 14.2 or fresh installs?

Jim

Jimmy Johnson

2023-03-25 22:24:33 UTC

Post by Jim Diamond
How curious... I did a fresh install, and yet my mtab is a file.

Yes, in 14.2, 15.0 and Current mtab is a file and not a folder. I have
all 3 installed and I checked.

As Henrik (and maybe others) have pointed out, the "fresh install" code
should make it a link.
But when you say "not a folder" (and I assume you mean "not a directory"),
that isn't the issue. It might be a symlink to /proc/mounts.

So you've decided to become the teacher and not the student, how rude of
you. I don't normally go around correction such trivial things but in
your case I will make the exception. When I open my file manager and go
to my /home/"folder" and right click I get the option to make a new
"folder". No where is the word "directory" mentioned. And in your file
manager you have two things folders and files, that makes a symbolic
link a file. Now please don't go around correcting people for trivial
things it is rude. By the way "Were" is not the word you wanted to use,
maybe "where" or "was" is what you wanted to say. Now I'm done being the
one who is rude. :)

Post by Jim Diamond
Were your 15.0 and current systems upgraded from 14.2 or fresh installs?

You install the current stable(today that would be 15.0) and go to
/etc/slackpkg/mirrors and switch to current, done. And like I said, I
run old stable, current stable and current. And yes, upgrading current
will give you the next stable, I have done both, upgrade install and
fresh install, If you want stable a fresh install is the best way to go.
And yes 14.2 was upgraded to 15.0, but like I said doing a fresh install
is the best way to go.

--
Jimmy Johnson

Slackware64 15.0 - i7-2820QM - EXT4 at sda9
Registered Linux User #380263

Rich

2023-03-26 04:21:50 UTC

Post by Jimmy Johnson

Post by Jim Diamond
How curious... I did a fresh install, and yet my mtab is a file.

Yes, in 14.2, 15.0 and Current mtab is a file and not a folder. I have
all 3 installed and I checked.

As Henrik (and maybe others) have pointed out, the "fresh install" code
should make it a link.
But when you say "not a folder" (and I assume you mean "not a directory"),
that isn't the issue. It might be a symlink to /proc/mounts.

"Directory" is the actual underlying filesystem name for the structure,
and in the command line tools, "directory" is pretty much exclusively
used as the name. That's why the "permissions" character that shows in
a long listing from ls (ls -l) is a "d" for directories, and why the
"mkdir" (MaKeDIRectory), "rmdir" (ReMoveDIRectory), cd (Change
Directory), and pwd (Print Working Directory) commands are named the
way they are.

The name "folder" is all but exclusively used by graphical user
interfaces as the name for what the OS, and the underlying tools, call
a directory. This difference likely came about from Apple copying
Xerox and creating a "desktop metaphor" that included "files" stored in
"folders" to mimic the then paper world of "folders" holding sheets of
paper. Microsoft then copying Apple to create windows also copied the
"folder" naming, and so we have what we have.

And one can often deduce someone's level of skill with the underlying,
non-graphical, command line by what term they normally use when
referring to "directories". If they use "folder" then it is highly
likely they are primarially a GUI user with little to no command line
experience. If they use "directory" then they likely have lots of
experience using the command line tools. This of course is an
imperfect predictor.

Jimmy Johnson

2023-03-26 06:18:13 UTC

Post by Rich
"Directory" is the actual underlying filesystem name for the structure,
and in the command line tools, "directory" is pretty much exclusively
used as the name. That's why the "permissions" character that shows in
a long listing from ls (ls -l) is a "d" for directories, and why the
"mkdir" (MaKeDIRectory), "rmdir" (ReMoveDIRectory), cd (Change
Directory), and pwd (Print Working Directory) commands are named the
way they are.

You have not proven my use of files and folders was incorrect. Nothing I
said was wrong and I don't need your lesson to run Slackware as a matter
of fact most of what I do with Slackware I do from a chroot and I've
been using cli for a long long time.

--
Jimmy Johnson

Alien-19-Linux - AMD A8-7600 at sda11
Registered Linux User #380263

Rich

2023-03-26 15:50:09 UTC

Post by Jimmy Johnson

Post by Rich
"Directory" is the actual underlying filesystem name for the
structure, and in the command line tools, "directory" is pretty much
exclusively used as the name. That's why the "permissions"
character that shows in a long listing from ls (ls -l) is a "d" for
directories, and why the "mkdir" (MaKeDIRectory), "rmdir"
(ReMoveDIRectory), cd (Change Directory), and pwd (Print Working
Directory) commands are named the way they are.

You have not proven my use of files and folders was incorrect.

Did I say anywhere in my post that you were wrong?

Post by Jimmy Johnson
Nothing I said was wrong and I don't need your lesson to run
Slackware as a matter of fact most of what I do with Slackware I do
from a chroot and I've been using cli for a long long time.

Then you are a member of the minority set for which using 'directory'
or 'folder' is an inaccurate way to predict CLI usage experience.
Which was way I included the final sentence stating that such was not a
perfect predictor.

Lew Pitcher

2023-03-20 22:39:31 UTC

I think I was the OP on that. Slackware 15 installed from bootable
DVD created from d/l iso. Came up with mtab as link to /proc/mounts.
I often mount laptop or 2nd desktop on main box's fs, for backup or
other purposes. Annoyance that root has to umount them.
Another poster remarked on having scripts to pre-identify how an
upgrade would/might break his setup. I've tried to avoid those
worries with always a new install, then reconstructing (with much
bother as my pleas for help here reflect) the numerous idiosyncrasies
of my setup.

I was really hoping the guy who talked about his many systems (some clean
installs, some upgrades) would chime in. But so far, no luck.

That might be me?

Indeed it is.

As I don't (yet) have any systems running Slackware 15.0, I can't answer
that question. However, all my 14.2 systems, both fresh install and upgrade
have an /etc/mtab file, and not a symlink.

Hope that helps

--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills We Trust"

Jim Diamond

2023-03-22 20:42:01 UTC

I think I was the OP on that. Slackware 15 installed from bootable
DVD created from d/l iso. Came up with mtab as link to /proc/mounts.
I often mount laptop or 2nd desktop on main box's fs, for backup or
other purposes. Annoyance that root has to umount them.
Another poster remarked on having scripts to pre-identify how an
upgrade would/might break his setup. I've tried to avoid those
worries with always a new install, then reconstructing (with much
bother as my pleas for help here reflect) the numerous idiosyncrasies
of my setup.

I was really hoping the guy who talked about his many systems (some clean
installs, some upgrades) would chime in. But so far, no luck.

That might be me?

Indeed it is.

It does help, in the sense that I now know you don't have a large sample of
15.0 systems sitting there waiting to reveal their secrets.

Cheers.
Jim

TronNerd82

2024-12-16 01:30:40 UTC

I burn the ISO to a DVD or flash it to a USB. Then I boot and install as
normal.

Rich

2023-03-14 14:57:38 UTC

Depends:

Bare metal:

Download DVD .iso.

Then either burn to DVD or load to USB stick , boot from DVD/USB stick
(which one depends upon what boot method the BIOS of bare metal machine
supports), install.

Or:

Download DVD .iso, attach disk to additional drive port of existing
running system, connect raw disk device to VirtualBox, link DVD .iso to
VirtualBox, boot DVD in Virtual box, with /dev/sda of the virtual
machine being the "linked" extra disk, install/configure inside VB.
Then move pre-installed disk into end destination machine.

Silvenshadow

2023-03-14 17:21:01 UTC

#7 - Monolithic DVD iso -> Usb drive -> Happiness

zmc

Dan C

2023-03-14 17:34:39 UTC

Choice #2, but sometimes to a USB stick rather than a DVD.

--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
"Bother!" said Pooh, as the woodpecker approached his hot-air balloon.
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Thanks, Obama: Loading Image...

Joseph Rosevear

2023-03-14 22:24:55 UTC

Post by Dan C

Choice #2, but sometimes to a USB stick rather than a DVD.

This sounds similar to what I do. Do you use Grub like this (below) to
boot the stick?:

isofile='/Slackware/slackware-14.2-iso/slackware-14.2-install-
d1.iso'
loopback loop $isofile
linux (loop)/kernels/hugesmp.s/bzImage
initrd (loop)/isolinux/initrd.img

Or some other way? It was a big surprise when I learned how to do it
this way. I wonder if many people know this technique and also if this
can be done with other boot loaders?

Henrik Carlqvist

2023-03-15 06:36:03 UTC

Post by Joseph Rosevear
7. Some other way.

I download the DVD iso and also the sources directory. Then spend some
weeks on modifying the scripts in /usr/lib/setup in the installation
initrd and adding custom packages including packages with scripts
overwriting the scripts in /var/log/setup to give me a quick installation
with only initial few questions. This custom installaiton boils down to
two .iso-files, one for a bootable cdrom intended for a NFS install and
one for a bootable bluray intended for standalone install.

I try to make any added software or any customization of configuration
files to custom Slackware packages which are deployed on all
installations.

regards Henrik

bad sector

2023-03-15 12:16:21 UTC

Post by Joseph Rosevear
1. I download the CD iso images, burn them to CDs, boot the first CD,
and install.
2. Same as above, but download a single DVD iso image and burn to a
DVD.

This one ^

Post by Joseph Rosevear
3. I download the CD iso images and use them directly, booting the
first image using Grub.
4. Same as above, but download a single DVD iso image.
5. I clone an existing installation using rsync, then modify it as
needed using patches and scripts.
6. I never install, I upgrade.
7. Some other way.

What I would like to see is a strictly user-oriented
install (off the net which is something I would let
Slackware do). I know this is well within the reach of
experts but I ain't no expert so...

Before anything at all got gets installed I would see
package selection start with me selecting let's say Firefox.
The installer would then list-in all the depends, the
first package thus selected naturally requiring a gigabyte
right off the bat. Then I would select others like maybe
Sylpheed, Kdenlive, etc. The idea would be that NOTHING
would get installed that wasn't *directly or indirectly*
commanded, no kwallet-anything to be blunt by way of one
example. I find that many distros pad the offerings by
just including stuff I would NEVER take off the shelf so
to speak.

I remember having tried this once with Suse I think, I
deleted every package from the offered list and then
started rebuilding from nothing but if my memory serves
right it just became a royal mess :-)

Henrik Carlqvist

2023-03-16 06:45:56 UTC

The idea would be that NOTHING would get installed that wasn't
*directly or indirectly*

There are other Linux distributions which have different kinds of package
management solutions which includes dependency resolution. Slackware
package management does not have dependency resoltion. If you think you
know what you are doing you can manually select packages during
installation but the recomended way to install is to do a full install.

Then there are third party repositories for Slackware like
slackbuilds.org which together with different tools offer dependency
resolution for their third party packages. However, all those dependency
resolutions only apply to the third party packages, they all assume that
you have made a full install of Slackware.

For good and bad Slackware does not have dependency resolution. What
would be the best way to upgrade or remove package X on which package Y
depends? Even with the dependency resolution from third party package
providers like slackbuilds.org it can quickly become a mess. Suppose that
you install package Y which depends upon package X. Two years later you
install package Z which also depends upon package X, but requires a newer
version of package X. To get package Z you will need to compile and
install a newer version of package X, but this will break package Y. If
you are lucky you might be able to recompile and reinstall package Y, if
you are unlucky your package Y is not compatible with the newer version
of package X.

With the original Slackware packages we know that they will allways match
each other. If a package is provided as a upgraded security patch any
other package which needs to be recompiled will also be provided from
Slackware.

regards Henrik

Martin Schöön

2023-03-16 20:40:44 UTC

The idea would be that NOTHING would get installed that wasn't
*directly or indirectly*

< large snip >

Post by Henrik Carlqvist
other package which needs to be recompiled will also be provided from
Slackware.
regards Henrik

Isn't Salix supposed to have dependency resolution? Any thoughts on
that?

/Martin (used to Debian, curious about Slackware)

Martin Schöön

2023-04-08 09:43:48 UTC

The idea would be that NOTHING would get installed that wasn't
*directly or indirectly*

< large snip >

Post by Henrik Carlqvist
other package which needs to be recompiled will also be provided from
Slackware.
regards Henrik

Isn't Salix supposed to have dependency resolution? Any thoughts on
that?
/Martin (used to Debian, curious about Slackware)

I wanted to try out Salix but as I want to use it with full disk
encryption it was put on hold. Then I learned about Slint which
builds on Salix and has an installer that does the disk encryption for
you. I installed Slint on a virtual machine (Qemu) and the installer
worked just fine including encryption.

So now I have the opportunity to try out Gslapt and its dependency
resolution. It is work in progress. Some packages provide Gslapt with
the information needed to install missing dependencies. Other packages
miss this information.

I also test Flatpak. It works but consumes disk space like there is no
tomorrow. Disclaimer: I have only done really simple testing.

/Martin

m***@smaus.org

2023-04-08 11:47:31 UTC

The idea would be that NOTHING would get installed that wasn't
*directly or indirectly*

worked just fine including encryption.
So now I have the opportunity to try out Gslapt and its dependency
resolution. It is work in progress. Some packages provide Gslapt with
the information needed to install missing dependencies. Other packages
miss this information.
I also test Flatpak. It works but consumes disk space like there is no
tomorrow. Disclaimer: I have only done really simple testing.
/Martin

Encryptation is bunk. All the utilities are backdoored to hell.

--
***@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

noel

2023-04-08 13:05:40 UTC

On Sat, 08 Apr 2023 11:47:31 +0000, maus wrote:

| Encryptation is bunk. All the utilities are backdoored to hell.

greymaus... a name from a lifetime ago (if you are him)... from the chat
net run by that scott scanner fella, you always were a one-liner guy

m***@smaus.org

2023-04-08 14:40:11 UTC

Post by noel
| Encryptation is bunk. All the utilities are backdoored to hell.
greymaus... a name from a lifetime ago (if you are him)... from the chat
net run by that scott scanner fella, you always were a one-liner guy

If you want to dig deeper, it was many years after the unpleasantness
that it was admitted that Enigma had been broken, for the meantime, a
company in Schwytz (I think) had been selling the machines to small
countries (including .ie) under the understanding that their messages
would be secure.

By encrypting yoor messages, all you are doing is indicating that the
messages contain things that you do not want others to read, and that
allows the police to concentrate on encrypted messages .

It you are using encryptation to hide kiddie porn, I suggest that you
borrow a gun, go down the garden and do the right thing.

Back to slack on an old laptop, and loving it. Debian was almost as
good, but the slope to W****** was beyond that.

--
***@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

Rich

2023-04-08 14:48:44 UTC

Post by m***@smaus.org
By encrypting yoor messages, all you are doing is indicating that the
messages contain things that you do not want others to read, and that
allows the police to concentrate on encrypted messages .

Which is the very reason why the "encrypt everything" crowd argues that
everyone should encrypt everything all the time.

In a world where no one encrypts, except when they have a message they
want to keep hidden, then yes, an "encrypted" message stands out as a
big red flag of "look here, there is something hidden".

But, instead, in a world where *everything*, no matter how mundane, is
encrypted, no one encrypted message stands out as any more 'special'
from all the other encrypted messages. Leaving the "police" with no
hint as to which particular messages to "concentrate upon".

noel

2023-04-14 12:10:37 UTC

Post by Rich
But, instead, in a world where *everything*, no matter how mundane, is
encrypted, no one encrypted message stands out as any more 'special'
from all the other encrypted messages. Leaving the "police" with no
hint as to which particular messages to "concentrate upon".

You're using a polticians 2000's playbook excuse, this is 2023.
LEA's concentrate on /individual targets/ so /all/ their messages and
emails are of interest, if a new target appears because of that, if the
warrant scope permits they are included, if not, back the judge they go
to then make that secondary a new target, or, a named person of the
original warrant - at least thats how it works in countries that value
their citizens privacy and don't treat them all like suspects, of course,
I wouldnt expect those from the U.S.A, China, North Korea or Peru to
grasp that fact :)

Rich

2023-04-14 13:04:07 UTC

Post by noel

You convieently left off the context to which my response replied, so
you could hallucinate a different meaning and respond to a different

Post by noel

Post by Rich
By encrypting yoor messages, all you are doing is indicating that
the messages contain things that you do not want others to read, and
that allows the police to concentrate on encrypted messages .

That original context was talking about situations where the police are
not already targeting you as an individual, yet choose to begin
targeting you *because you are one of the few encrypted messages* they
see, and the "why is this one encrypted" curioursity puts you on their
radar. So they choose to "look" because "well, if you are encrypting,
that /must be/ because there is something there to hide".

Your response is topical for "the police are already targeting you for
any multitude of other reasons -- of course they are going to try to
decrypt your comms", which is not the context of my response at all.

maus

2023-04-14 13:21:18 UTC

I repeat. Encrypting anything is a waste of time. It just shows that you
are trying to hide something. With that, VPM is also a waste of time,
unless you have a direct link (no local nexus on which your data
travels). Research the people who developed the encryptation, they would
not be alowed to develope anything that has not trapdoors. I do not know
any country where completely free communications happen.

noel

2023-05-21 08:02:55 UTC

Post by maus
I repeat. Encrypting anything is a waste of time. It just shows that you
are trying to hide something. With that, VPM is also a waste of time,
unless you have a direct link (no local nexus on which your data
travels). Research the people who developed the encryptation, they would
not be alowed to develope anything that has not trapdoors. I do not know
any country where completely free communications happen.

bullshit, it shows we value our privacy from prying foreign eyes

In my roles I've dealt with LEA's for over 25 years, I often converse
with THEM using GPG, often containing intercepted information, you rather
I send that unencrypted, pffft... their are many reasons for encryption,
but I know people like you will never understand that maus.

But your the sort of person that thinks its OK for journos taking
messages from whistleblowers ending up on a USA watchlist becasue they
used tails, I think its fucking hilarious, and teh dumb cunts are even
today probably still trying to figure out what that encrypted code was I
was sending - well, unless they are reading this thread, then they'll
realise their time was wasted for targeting someone who was not a
terrorist and would have had no links to one that would cause them to
legitimately target someone like me, of course I have no idea if tehy
did, but by all reports from Snowden I and millions like me, may have
been.

Pssst you do realise as a linux user, you too, are, or would have been,
on a watchlist :) might not be a targeted mark, or no fly list but your
on a list none the same.

noel

2023-05-21 07:47:37 UTC

Post by Rich
You convieently left off the context to which my response replied, so
you could hallucinate a different meaning and respond to a different

No, I deliberately trim, I have done that 98% of every post I make.

Post by Rich

Again, you have lumbered everyone into the same basket, a dangerous thing
to do, on such a pathetic reasoning, its like the Australian comms
minister 10 years ago when he tried to introduce mandatory internet
filtering, "anyone who disagreed by have been a pedo or supporter of such
people" I mean seriously, that shows how fucked in hte head he was, he'd
make a great pollie in China or Russia. (funny that, at next election he
was ousted - cant imagine why :)

Post by Rich
Your response is topical for "the police are already targeting you for
any multitude of other reasons -- of course they are going to try to
decrypt your comms", which is not the context of my response at all.

No, the police in this country don't, we have checks and balances in law,
when our recent metadata retention laws were debated, not even the head
of the aus federal police wanted tracking of every citizens websites
visited because he knew the serious criminal element is few and far
between and average citizen is not one.

of course there were perverted reps from some state police services that
wanted that power, jesus, some proposed having more spying access that
would be greater than ASIO (our version of MI5) has.

noel

2023-04-14 11:59:49 UTC

Post by m***@smaus.org

Post by noel
| Encryptation is bunk. All the utilities are backdoored to hell.
greymaus... a name from a lifetime ago (if you are him)... from the
chat net run by that scott scanner fella, you always were a one-liner
guy

If you want to dig deeper, it was many years after the unpleasantness
that it was admitted that Enigma had been broken, for the meantime, a
company in Schwytz (I think) had been selling the machines to small
countries (including .ie) under the understanding that their messages
would be secure.
By encrypting yoor messages, all you are doing is indicating that the
messages contain things that you do not want others to read, and that
allows the police to concentrate on encrypted messages .
It you are using encryptation to hide kiddie porn, I suggest that you
borrow a gun, go down the garden and do the right thing.
Back to slack on an old laptop, and loving it. Debian was almost as
good, but the slope to W****** was beyond that.

In this country, it matters not, because your messages are private,
unless a court issues a warant to a LEA to invade that privacy, in which
case encryption doesn't set off must-read-flags, because in such cases,
you are a target, a POI, and /all/ your comms is subject to forensic
level scrutiny, pedos, drug dealers and no doubt terrorists use coded
plain text messages all the time, although in a different job these days,
I've worked with our Federal Police in my role to apply a few such
monitorings, half of them are too stupid to know encryption exists, but
even then, decyphering the unencrpyted mumbo jumbo often comes too late,
then there are the journos, the politicians, the whistleblowers, the
justice officers, and yes - the spooks, all use encryption with any
sensitive matter.

encryption does not mean you are an offender, it means you value your
privacy. this bullshit that gets spruked that "if you got nothing to hide
dont encrypt, you got nothing to worry about" is typcial politican
bullshit, its the same dumb arse crap they come up with like, "if you
object to mandatory internet filtering/cencorship" (pushed by teh
religious minorities in govt) you support pedos and drug kings.. jesus h
christ, these cunts really have no idea that nobody beleives that
garbage, only pollies and those with an IQ of a polliticians show size
might.

I for one never used encrypted emails until Snowden, when it was wide
scale knowledge to the world, that non US citizens, as well as US
citizens, become a POI when using it, a few of us would often send
hundreds of messages a day with utter bullshit in it, just to amuse the
USA's NSA, we even sent random outputs from /dev/null into a plain
unencrypted email, also, for their (or is that /our/) amusement, but its
ok, I know i'm on their watchlist, because I'm a linux user who has over
the years frequented Linux Journal's website, but since I don't have any
plans to visit the USA, I have no fucks to give.

I use encryption daily however in many aspects, like SIP, backups,
sensitive info on flash drives, portable drives, insecure laptops etc etc
etc.
and always will :)

Ferannia

2023-06-06 19:17:27 UTC

Post by noel
I know i'm on their watchlist, because I'm a linux user who has over
the years frequented Linux Journal's website, but since I don't have any
plans to visit the USA, I have no fucks to give.

Do you really believe long time Linux users are on NSA's watchlist?

Ted Heise

2023-06-06 19:40:25 UTC

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 12:17:27 -0700,

Post by noel
I know i'm on their watchlist, because I'm a linux user who
has over the years frequented Linux Journal's website, but
since I don't have any plans to visit the USA, I have no fucks
to give.

Do you really believe long time Linux users are on NSA's
watchlist?

Aren't we all?

--
Ted Heise <***@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

Ferannia

2023-06-06 20:01:21 UTC

Post by Ted Heise
On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 12:17:27 -0700,

Post by noel
I know i'm on their watchlist, because I'm a linux user who
has over the years frequented Linux Journal's website, but
since I don't have any plans to visit the USA, I have no fucks
to give.

Do you really believe long time Linux users are on NSA's
watchlist?

Aren't we all?

That's what I'm asking you. Please can you clarify why exactly lont term
Linux users are on NSA's watchlist?

Ted Heise

2023-06-07 01:10:28 UTC

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 13:01:21 -0700,

Post by Ted Heise
On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 12:17:27 -0700,

Post by noel
I know i'm on their watchlist, because I'm a linux user who
has over the years frequented Linux Journal's website, but
since I don't have any plans to visit the USA, I have no
fucks to give.

Do you really believe long time Linux users are on NSA's
watchlist?

Aren't we all?

That's what I'm asking you. Please can you clarify why exactly
lont term Linux users are on NSA's watchlist?

My comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, given the broad trawling
of the entirety of communications that the NSA reportedly does.

--
Ted Heise <***@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

bad sector

2023-06-07 05:22:19 UTC

Post by noel
In this country, it matters not, because your messages are private,
unless a court issues a warant to a LEA to invade that privacy, in which
case encryption doesn't set off must-read-flags, because in such cases,
you are a target, a POI, and /all/ your comms is subject to forensic
level scrutiny, pedos, drug dealers and no doubt terrorists use coded
plain text messages all the time, although in a different job these days,
I've worked with our Federal Police in my role to apply a few such
monitorings, half of them are too stupid to know encryption exists, but
even then, decyphering the unencrpyted mumbo jumbo often comes too late,
then there are the journos, the politicians, the whistleblowers, the
justice officers, and yes - the spooks, all use encryption with any
sensitive matter.
encryption does not mean you are an offender, it means you value your
privacy.

Security isn't based on facts but on possibilities, suspicion, and
prejudice. I don't at all need to KNOW if my mail is being read only to
assume that it is. Beyond the fact that I have nothing worth encrypting
the reason I don't is that I presume that all comms are automatically
decoded if needed and stored regardless. The same applies when one is on
the other end of the checkerboard of course.

I have no idea if I was on some watchlist or shitlist for being a Linux
user or for any other reason but I did have one unpleasant and another
totally horrible incident with US border agents who, after looking me up
in the computer both times, next glared at me like I had just killed
their mother. One of them lost his cool and was yelling conflicting
orders at me like the creep in this video

and would have blown my head off if he had a gun (he didn't pull it if
he did, he was higher in this cubicle and I was in my car). He had asked
me where I was going and I told him I was going to a hotel a couple of
clicks away but didn't know the address or name which were written down
on a piece of paper in my T-shirt pocket (it was summer). As I was
trying to get the piece of paper out he started warning me to get my
hand out of my pocket (a plainly visible 3" T-shirt pocket for crissake
that I could barely get three fingers in) and was shrieking at the top
of his lungs and trembling like a *total basket case*.

This same (and last) time they next ripped my new Buick to pieces and
left me there to put it back together. I had never done an illegal thing
and had never been treated like this in my life but could not know what
they were reading about me on the monitor. Seeing that they ripped the
car I figure they must have thought I was running dope or something.
That all came to a sudden end around 30 years ago after which time the
average yearly 8-12 thousand dollars I had been spending stateside never
went back there again, and never will. I had become a Linux user a few
years before, no idea if it had a bearing though.

slash

2023-06-07 14:34:06 UTC

...I have nothing worth encrypting

That's silly. Instead, ask yourself wether you want anything
disseminated to third parties.

the reason I don't is that I presume that all comms are automatically
decoded

Do you believe that someone is decoding the credentials you exchange on
every home banking session? And that doesn't bother you? Uh, I forgot,
you are one of the "nothing to hide" lot. :-)

--
/

bad sector

2023-06-07 15:55:45 UTC

...I have nothing worth encrypting

That's silly. Instead, ask yourself wether you want anything
disseminated to third parties.

the reason I don't is that I presume that all comms are automatically
decoded

Do you believe that someone is decoding the credentials you exchange on
every home banking session? And that doesn't bother you? Uh, I forgot,
you are one of the "nothing to hide" lot. :-)

It bothers me but there's nothing "I" can do to interdict it and, believe
me, MY banking sessions offer very little reward to snoops. There IS
industry surveillance that offers me more security at least from the non-
banking gangsters that the banking gangsters want to keep off their turf
but the idea is to keep things to a minimum. That again is basic
security, the easiest to protect is what isn't even there! The next basic
security mantra is that the first beneficiary is always the first suspect
and that is the security provider himself. I once saw a documentary on
this (I think NSA) server-farm in Phoenix or wherever and the allegedly
open secret was that nothing on the net got by them without being stored.
Actually as early as windows 95 every new customer's every available bit
of info was 'called home' and stored on five or more separate microcancer
servers on that many continents so the technology OR the practice are
anything but novel. THEN came 911, the taliban, googlegoons and
faecesbooks to name just a few other related topics, happy days...

slash

2023-06-08 09:33:44 UTC

...I have nothing worth encrypting

That's silly. Instead, ask yourself wether you want anything
disseminated to third parties.

the reason I don't is that I presume that all comms are automatically
decoded

Do you believe that someone is decoding the credentials you exchange on
every home banking session? And that doesn't bother you? Uh, I forgot,
you are one of the "nothing to hide" lot. :-)

It bothers me but there's nothing "I" can do to interdict it

You are saying that you don't trust tls encryption, because some bad guy
can crack it? Rest assured, even if the NSA can crack tls, they won't
make the chinese aware of it just for the sake of busting you.
Cryptography is real, and cheap, so there's no reason not to use it. The
alternative is the good old tinfoil hat.

--
/

bad sector

2023-06-08 10:49:46 UTC

...I have nothing worth encrypting

That's silly. Instead, ask yourself wether you want anything
disseminated to third parties.

the reason I don't is that I presume that all comms are automatically
decoded

Do you believe that someone is decoding the credentials you exchange on
every home banking session? And that doesn't bother you? Uh, I forgot,
you are one of the "nothing to hide" lot. :-)

It bothers me but there's nothing "I" can do to interdict it

You are saying that you don't trust tls encryption

I pretend to have the healthiest security attitude of all people: I
don't trust anyone. I'm also the most unbiased person since it is
without prejudice that I hate everyone equally without regard to race
creed or religion. But seriously, it's not the state snoops who spook
me, rather the corporate scum-field and the id-stealing vermin operating
off some smartphone in mookmookville. The latter don't get to intercept
my banking traffic which is the only one I would be sensitive about
because TWICE now I've ALMOST been ripped off and both incidents were
CREDIT card related having nothing to do with passwords. So I developed
my own low-level but bulletproof countermeasure to that. Meanwhile if I
as a 79 old fart would be of any interest to any secret service or
police then I'd say they have some very, very serious problems :-)

That step where one gets involved in the technical discussion is where I
hit the side road partly because I think we should foster sane stone-age
methods of security instead of just handing everything over to
encryption which in the end relies on trust. Instead of herding everyone
to the automated lalaland carrot in front of their nose we should be
teaching people to instinctively watch their personal data as a way of
life. Always answer the phone with "Mama's Pizza" and any question with
"Who wants to know"?

BTW my bank wasn't happy with tls (I presume) so they went to second
level security questions which they explained to me they intend to do
much more of in the future. To me that says they're not all that
satisfied with encryption either.

--
Oh Lord of the Keyrings on high, have I got bad news for you: the word
trust is nowhere to be found in my security dictionary.

slash

2023-06-09 13:58:52 UTC

...it's not the state snoops who spook me, rather the corporate
scum-field and the id-stealing vermin operating off some smartphone
in mookmookville.

You beat them both easily with encryption.

That step where one gets involved in the technical discussion is
where I hit the side road partly because I think we should foster
sane stone-age methods of security

They work. Just keep grunting to people near you instead of using
internet, and you are certainly safe. Mafia bosses in Italy evade
capture for decades by never going near a telephone. Instead, they hand
around easily chewable small pieces of paper. Downside: they need to
blindly trust the chewers.

instead of just handing everything over to encryption which in the
end relies on trust.

Nope. It relies on math. But I get it, you don't have a clue, and
therefore react as a baboon to whom somebody is trying to teach the
advantages of a spoon and a fork. They are useless to him, as encryption
is to you.

BTW my bank wasn't happy with tls (I presume)

You presume wrong.

so they went to second level security questions which they explained
to me they intend to do much more of in the future. To me that says
they're not all that satisfied with encryption either

Again, you are clueless. Their mistrust is on you, not on tls. They are
pretty sure that you can't keep safe your credentials, and prefer to ask
a few more questions, to be sure that it's still you using that
password. Rest assured that your bank is not switching from tls to
cleartext anytime soon.

--
/

bad sector

2023-06-10 00:23:38 UTC

...it's not the state snoops who spook me, rather the corporate
scum-field and the id-stealing vermin operating off some smartphone
in mookmookville.

You beat them both easily with encryption.

If you believe so then continue using it. I don't tell you what to do
and you don't tell me.

That step where one gets involved in the technical discussion is where
I hit the side road partly because I think we should foster sane
stone-age methods of security

instead of just handing everything over to encryption which in the end
relies on trust.

I don't get into ad-hominem either, you just did, which says it all
about who's the baboon.

noel

2023-06-10 03:15:11 UTC

...it's not the state snoops who spook me, rather the corporate
scum-field and the id-stealing vermin operating off some smartphone
in mookmookville.

You beat them both easily with encryption.

If you believe so then continue using it. I don't tell you what to do
and you don't tell me.

That step where one gets involved in the technical discussion is where
I hit the side road partly because I think we should foster sane
stone-age methods of security

instead of just handing everything over to encryption which in the end
relies on trust.

I don't get into ad-hominem either, you just did, which says it all
about who's the baboon.

The U.S.A N.S.A. thanks you for your continued submission of your data,
your ignorance and denials in secure methods and idiocy makes our job so
easy we only need to have first year interns trawl your data, please keep
this up.

PS:

Interesting web sites you are visiting.

bad sector

2023-06-10 17:22:52 UTC

Post by noel
your ignorance and denials in secure methods and idiocy

I was into pgp around version 2.6 when you were still desperately
looking for a pinhole in your old man's condom

plonk

noel

2023-06-11 08:49:27 UTC

Post by noel
your ignorance and denials in secure methods and idiocy

I was into pgp around version 2.6 when you were still desperately
looking for a pinhole in your old man's condom
plonk

hahahaha is that the best you can do you whiny lil bitch?
I had better retorts from prepubecent pimpleheads on efnet back in early
90's hahahahaha you sad sack hahahaha

Erte Ribbile

2023-06-12 06:17:57 UTC

...it's not the state snoops who spook me, rather the corporate
scum-field and the id-stealing vermin operating off some smartphone
in mookmookville.

You beat them both easily with encryption.

If you believe so then continue using it. I don't tell you what to do
and you don't tell me.

I don't "tell", I suggest. Encryption is not "belief", is math. You
prefer beliefs? Nobody will bother you.

bad sector

2023-06-12 09:33:59 UTC

Post by Erte Ribbile

...it's not the state snoops who spook me, rather the corporate
scum-field and the id-stealing vermin operating off some smartphone
in mookmookville.

You beat them both easily with encryption.

If you believe so then continue using it. I don't tell you what to do
and you don't tell me.

I don't "tell", I suggest. Encryption is not "belief", is math. You
prefer beliefs? Nobody will bother you.

Yes, technically encryption is math, practically it includes the use
made of it and then we get into motives, belief, cloak and dagger crap
and who knows what else with back doors to who knows where else. I
prioritize the rudimentary approach that begins with physical data
denial and avoid security providers wholesale. For one thing, in most
countries these latter could but are NOT ALLOWED to deny data from state
authority so that leaves mainly the private sector to be protected
against ..and I have my own opinions about how the private sector
works: you sell your mother to the highest bidder, period. As for the
rare cloaking that I might need, like for my passwords stored on disk, I
roll my own. Yeah, they can be intercepted once sent but that encryption
isn't under my control anyway for one thing, and except for my bank the
data doesn't need protection. Some super stink tech-giant is gonna
expend effort to recover my password used in some extreme-gardening
forum? I don't think so. Someone wants to force the general use of
encryption by all at every level? Go for it! Me, I will still deny
physical access wherever I can as if encryption didn't even exist
because for security I don't believe in trust. In 2023 everyone is lying
about everything all the time, we live in the age of credibility meltdown.

bad sector

2023-06-02 21:49:37 UTC

Post by m***@smaus.org

The idea would be that NOTHING would get installed that wasn't
*directly or indirectly*

Encryptation is bunk. All the utilities are backdoored to hell.

Wasn't there a major crew-change in every single security development
cubicle soon after 911?

I kept some old versions, just in case, which I never used :-)

Martin Schöön

2023-06-13 20:49:02 UTC

Post by Martin SchÃ¶Ã¶n
Isn't Salix supposed to have dependency resolution? Any thoughts on
that?
/Martin (used to Debian, curious about Slackware)

I wanted to try out Salix but as I want to use it with full disk
encryption it was put on hold. Then I learned about Slint which
builds on Salix and has an installer that does the disk encryption for
you. I installed Slint on a virtual machine (Qemu) and the installer
worked just fine including encryption.
So now I have the opportunity to try out Gslapt and its dependency
resolution. It is work in progress. Some packages provide Gslapt with
the information needed to install missing dependencies. Other packages
miss this information.

I am back.
I decided to install Salix on a virtual machine.
I like it. I find Salix to be a treat, a true delight to use.
Gslapt works just fine. The issues I had when testing Slint had to do
with Slint.

Too bad full disk encryption is such an intimidating thing in this case.

And, as this is such a hot topic, it has nothing to do with NSA and
their ilk in my case. I just feel better if I can prevent 'John Doe' from
browsing my folders if the computer 'goes missing'.

/Martin

bad sector

2023-03-17 00:12:19 UTC

The idea would be that NOTHING would get installed that wasn't
*directly or indirectly*

There are other Linux distributions which have different kinds of package
management solutions which includes dependency resolution. Slackware
package management does not have dependency resoltion.

I of course intended the addendum to apply to those that do

Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood

2023-03-15 22:57:34 UTC

Groovy hepcat Joseph Rosevear was jivin' in alt.os.linux.slackware on
Tue, 14 Mar 2023 07:54 pm. It's a cool scene! Dig it.

Post by Joseph Rosevear
7. Some other way.

I mainly use Debian these days. But Slackware 3.4 was my first Linux
distro experience back in the late '90s. I bought that disk set (one
Slackware CD and three software archive mirror CDs) at a computer shop.
And I like to play around with some old hardware, for which that old
Slackware is almost ideal. I also have a slightly newer Slackware
version (10 I think) that also runs on this old hardware (though not
quite as speedily), which was from a magazine cover disk. What I can't
do with Slack 3.4 I do with Slack 10... or Deb 2, which I also have
installed on the same hardware,... or deb 3, which is also installed
there.

--
----- Dig the NEW and IMPROVED news sig!! -----

-------------- Shaggy was here! ---------------
Ain't I'm a dawg!!

K. Venken

2023-03-16 15:37:24 UTC

7. I use basically two methods:

1)
download iso and dd it to usb, then boot and install from usb

2)
put iso extracted on dedicated NFS + PXE server together with my own
installation scripts/settings/tagfiles

Additionally I have a script to "kind of automatically" install software
from SBo.

Sylvain Robitaille

2023-05-01 06:07:48 UTC

Late response to this, but I rather like the thread, and wishing I
hadn't missed it when it was fresh, I thought I'd go ahead and follow
up ...

Post by Joseph Rosevear
1. I download the CD iso images, burn them to CDs, boot the
first CD, and install.
2. Same as above, but download a single DVD iso image and burn
to a DVD.

I've done both of these, but most often, in the days when there was a
Slackware Store, I bought the CD (or DVD) sets and used those.

Post by Joseph Rosevear
3. I download the CD iso images and use them directly, booting
the first image using Grub.
4. Same as above, but download a single DVD iso image.

I've never used grub on a Slackware system ...

Post by Joseph Rosevear
5. I clone an existing installation using rsync, then modify
it as needed using patches and scripts.
6. I never install, I upgrade.

Neither of these methods ever struck me as a good idea. Installing a
new OS version on a system is an opportunity to clean out some cruft
from past installations, in my opinion, to start again with a clean
slate (although I do preserve home directories and locally installed
software across versions, wherever possible).

Post by Joseph Rosevear
7. Some other way.

I make a local clone of a mirror of the distribution (to which I also
keep up with package updates). I PXE-boot the target computer (using
gpxe on a USB key or even a floppy disk, if the target system can't PXE
boot of its own accord), and from there I install from NFS. I did for a
while keep "tag" files for my system installations, and the truth is
that works great to minimize human intervention when you don't want a
"full" installation, but it was too much work to keep the tag files up
to date between Slackware versions. For the small number of systems I
have, and the smaller number that I upgrade to the latest stable version
at any time, it just winds up being simpler to select from the package
menus.

The PXE-boot to NFS installation is really a very handy way to do the
installations. No CDs or DVDs to swap in and out, and it goes rather
quickly.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille ***@therockgarden.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Joseph Rosevear

2023-07-01 13:59:37 UTC

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
Late response to this, but I rather like the thread, and wishing I
hadn't missed it when it was fresh, I thought I'd go ahead and follow up

No, worries :)

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
...

Post by Joseph Rosevear
1. I download the CD iso images, burn them to CDs, boot the
first CD, and install.
2. Same as above, but download a single DVD iso image and burn
to a DVD.

I've done both of these, but most often, in the days when there was a
Slackware Store, I bought the CD (or DVD) sets and used those.

Personally, I liked having Slackware on a (cool) set of CDs. It worked
well for me as I'm sure it did for many.

Post by Joseph Rosevear
3. I download the CD iso images and use them directly, booting
the first image using Grub.
4. Same as above, but download a single DVD iso image.

I've never used grub on a Slackware system ...

You know, Grub is a little obscure. I went through an uncomfortable
learning process.

Post by Joseph Rosevear
5. I clone an existing installation using rsync, then modify
it as needed using patches and scripts.
6. I never install, I upgrade.

Right, you are. But have you ever had a need or desire to "mass produce"
multiple configured installations? I did when I worked as a paraeducator
in an elementary school. With support from the principal I rescued many
dozens of "thin client" PCs which had been piled (oh, the tangled wires!)
in the custodial room or left in similar disarray in the classrooms.
These machines had 16GB SSDs and 2GB of RAM in them. The school system
had dropped support for the machines because of their age, but I
resurrected about half of them and put them in classrooms, plus one in
the office and another in the library. Here is a link:

https://joeslife.org/projects/thin

Post by Joseph Rosevear
7. Some other way.

I make a local clone of a mirror of the distribution (to which I also
keep up with package updates). I PXE-boot the target computer (using
gpxe on a USB key or even a floppy disk, if the target system can't PXE
boot of its own accord), and from there I install from NFS. I did for a
while keep "tag" files for my system installations, and the truth is
that works great to minimize human intervention when you don't want a
"full" installation, but it was too much work to keep the tag files up
to date between Slackware versions. For the small number of systems I
have, and the smaller number that I upgrade to the latest stable version
at any time, it just winds up being simpler to select from the package
menus.
The PXE-boot to NFS installation is really a very handy way to do the
installations. No CDs or DVDs to swap in and out, and it goes rather
quickly.

That's great! I've never used PXE-boot, although I've wondered if it
might serve me somehow.

-Joe

Sylvain Robitaille

2024-03-22 01:12:14 UTC

On 2023-07-01, Joseph Rosevear wrote:

(yes, I dare show up this many months later to follow up ... ;-)

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
I've never used grub on a Slackware system ...

You know, Grub is a little obscure. I went through an uncomfortable
learning process.

Oh, I've used grub. I'm not a fan, but can work with it well
enough, thus my not using it on Slackware systems. Once you have
it configured, though, you just kind of forget that it's there.
I suppose that's its intent, for those that would repeatedly forget
to re-run lilo after updating a kernel.

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
... Installing a new OS version on a system is an opportunity to
clean out some cruft from past installations, in my opinion, to start
again with a clean slate ...

Right, you are. But have you ever had a need or desire to "mass
produce" multiple configured installations?

Only for work. Read "not with Slackware". At work we use cobbler
to standardize installations and cfengine to keep configurations
consistent. A little bit of glue-scripting implemented by a former
colleague and the whole build process works mostly smoothly. Cobbler
is a great tool, but really designed for RH and Debian derivatives.
It's just not worth trying to wrangle it to work with Slackware.

If I were to do "mass installation" with Slackware, I'd resume using
TAG files for package selection, and likely would stick with cfengine
for configuration management. I've been meaning to work with cfengine
on my home systems, but I just don't have enough of them to justify it.

Post by Joseph Rosevear
https://joeslife.org/projects/thin

It's sad to think, but if you haven't been there to maintain that
installation, the systems probably were shelved again some time ago.

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
The PXE-boot to NFS installation is really a very handy way to do the
installations. No CDs or DVDs to swap in and out, and it goes rather
quickly.

That's great! I've never used PXE-boot, although I've wondered if it
might serve me somehow.

Certainly for your mass installations it would. PXE-boot and select
packages with tag files. All that's left to deal with is your
post-installation configuration.

(with apologies for the repeated long absences ...)

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille ***@therockgarden.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Joseph Rosevear

2024-03-26 06:14:22 UTC

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
(yes, I dare show up this many months later to follow up ... ;-)

Better late, than never!

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
I've never used grub on a Slackware system ...

You know, Grub is a little obscure. I went through an uncomfortable
learning process.

Oh, I've used grub. I'm not a fan, but can work with it well enough,
thus my not using it on Slackware systems. Once you have it configured,
though, you just kind of forget that it's there.
I suppose that's its intent, for those that would repeatedly forget to
re-run lilo after updating a kernel.

I like that Grub has a command line. It's like a mini OS, and can do
some useful things. And it works well for me. I've used it so long that
I can't say what, if anything, makes it better. I remember lilo vaguely.

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
... Installing a new OS version on a system is an opportunity to clean
out some cruft from past installations, in my opinion, to start again
with a clean slate ...

Right, you are. But have you ever had a need or desire to "mass
produce" multiple configured installations?

Hey, I read a little about cobbler and cfengine online. Both sound like
deluxe tools. This can be really good! Of course, the devil is in the
details.

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
If I were to do "mass installation" with Slackware, I'd resume using TAG
files for package selection, and likely would stick with cfengine for
configuration management. I've been meaning to work with cfengine on my
home systems, but I just don't have enough of them to justify it.

Post by Joseph Rosevear
https://joeslife.org/projects/thin

It's sad to think, but if you haven't been there to maintain that
installation, the systems probably were shelved again some time ago.

Miraculously, the machines worked, although I expect they are gone now.
I rescued them from a tangled pile of components destined for the trash.
I would say I pulled a rabbit out of my hat.

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
The PXE-boot to NFS installation is really a very handy way to do the
installations. No CDs or DVDs to swap in and out, and it goes rather
quickly.

I considered doing something fancy like that, but I didn't know how. And
I needed to produce results fast so that I would be allowed to continue.

Post by Joseph Rosevear
That's great! I've never used PXE-boot, although I've wondered if it
might serve me somehow.

Certainly for your mass installations it would. PXE-boot and select
packages with tag files. All that's left to deal with is your
post-installation configuration.

Hmmm. I wonder? I had radically, modified Slackware, and had very
little room to spare on each machine's SSD.

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
(with apologies for the repeated long absences ...)

Auric__

2024-03-27 18:26:51 UTC

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
(yes, I dare show up this many months later to follow up ... ;-)

Better late, than never!

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
I've never used grub on a Slackware system ...

You know, Grub is a little obscure. I went through an uncomfortable
learning process.

Oh, I've used grub. I'm not a fan, but can work with it well enough,
thus my not using it on Slackware systems. Once you have it configured,
though, you just kind of forget that it's there.
I suppose that's its intent, for those that would repeatedly forget to
re-run lilo after updating a kernel.

I much prefer lilo, largely because I've been using it since, what, 1998? I
like its simplicity, and I have no reason to learn something else when what
I have works for me. (I haven't been a sysadmin in a very long time, so no
financial incentive, either.) If, for some reason, I install a distro that
uses grub, fine, as long as I don't have to configure it manually, but if I
have to give it the slightest bit of thought, it's lilo for me.

(If I wanted a mini-os at boot time, I'd probably loop in a disk image or
something. DOS would likely boot *very* quickly on my server, and there I'd
have access to 40+ years of tools for whatever task I needed to do. Until
about 11 years ago, I had a small DOS partition installed on every machine
of mine for exactly that reason, even the servers.)

--
I don't turn toward the light because it means someday I'll "win"
some sort of cosmic game. I turn toward it because it is the light.

Sam

2024-03-27 21:40:39 UTC

Post by Auric__
(If I wanted a mini-os at boot time, I'd probably loop in a disk image or
something. DOS would likely boot *very* quickly on my server, and there I'd
have access to 40+ years of tools for whatever task I needed to do.

Slackware seems to be pretty zippy at booting. At least the stock Slackware
15. If I focus my eyeballs on the console I can see that it takes 2.3
seconds from kernel boot until /etc/rc.d/rc.S finishes, at which point vera
starts logging how long each container from rc.M spins up. The last one
starts 2.5 seconds later:

0.000s started system/boot
0.000s started system/rc.M.target
0.026s started system/rc.M/rc.syslog
0.918s started system/rc.M/rc.udev
0.005s started system/rc.M/rc.haveged
0.021s started system/rc.M/rc.messagebus
0.017s started system/rc.M/rc.elogind
0.003s started system/rc.M/rc.bluetooth
0.041s started system/rc.M/rc.networkmanager
0.012s started system/rc.M/rc.sshd
0.009s started system/rc.M/rc.ntpd
0.124s started system/rc.M/rc.acpid
0.032s started system/rc.M/rc.cpufreq
0.022s started system/rc.M/rc.crond
0.092s started system/rc.M/rc.atd
0.003s started system/rc.M/rc.gpm
* 2.297s started system/inittab/rc
0.000s started system/rc.multi-user
0.114s + 2.297s waiting started system/inittab/rc-start-multi-user
0.000s + 2.411s waiting started system/inittab/rc-started-multi-user
0.060s + 2.411s waiting started system/inittab/rc-run-local
0.000s + 2.471s waiting started system/inittab/c1
0.000s + 2.471s waiting started system/inittab/c2
0.000s + 2.471s waiting started system/inittab/c3
0.000s + 2.471s waiting started system/inittab/c4
0.000s + 2.471s waiting started system/inittab/c5
0.000s + 2.471s waiting started system/inittab/c6
0.000s + 2.471s waiting started system/multi-user

Total boot time is under five seconds, till the login prompt. DOS might beat
it, but there's not much to beat, here.

I tried to see how long run level 5 would take, but it took even less time
since the virtual disk was already cached in RAM (I'm using a VM) and I'm
too lazy to reboot the raw iron.

Sylvain Robitaille

2024-03-27 21:12:11 UTC

Post by Joseph Rosevear
I like that Grub has a command line. It's like a mini OS, and can do
some useful things. And it works well for me. I've used it so long
that I can't say what, if anything, makes it better.

No doubt that it's found to be preferable by some, or it wouldn't have
made its way into so many (every known?) Linux distributions. I *am*
glad to see that lilo remains an option in Slackware-land, though.

Post by Joseph Rosevear
Hey, I read a little about cobbler and cfengine online. Both sound
like deluxe tools. This can be really good! Of course, the devil is
in the details.

They're great tools, and cfengine can certainly be OS agnostic. I'm
not even sure that it was originally designed for Linux, specifically.
Cobbler, though, is designed around specific package-installation
routines. (anaconda, in particular, if memory serves)

Post by Joseph Rosevear
I would say I pulled a rabbit out of my hat.

scruffy little bunny, it sounds like! ;-)

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
The PXE-boot to NFS installation is really a very handy way to do the
installations. ...

I considered doing something fancy like that, but I didn't know how.
And I needed to produce results fast so that I would be allowed to
continue.

Been there. The approach will save you time in the long run, but it
*takes* time to learn how to do it and then to get it set up.

Post by Joseph Rosevear
Hmmm. I wonder? I had radically, modified Slackware, and had very
little room to spare on each machine's SSD.

Create a Slackware "package" that implements your modifications, and
then it's just "installpkg localmods-1.0" to get a number of systems set
up?

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille ***@therockgarden.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Joseph Rosevear

2024-03-29 20:27:23 UTC

Post by Joseph Rosevear
Hey, I read a little about cobbler and cfengine online. Both sound
like deluxe tools. This can be really good! Of course, the devil is
in the details.

They're great tools, and cfengine can certainly be OS agnostic. I'm not
even sure that it was originally designed for Linux, specifically.
Cobbler, though, is designed around specific package-installation
routines. (anaconda, in particular, if memory serves)

Post by Joseph Rosevear
I would say I pulled a rabbit out of my hat.

scruffy little bunny, it sounds like! ;-)

Scruffy and ornery!

Post by Sylvain Robitaille
The PXE-boot to NFS installation is really a very handy way to do the
installations. ...

I considered doing something fancy like that, but I didn't know how.
And I needed to produce results fast so that I would be allowed to
continue.

Been there. The approach will save you time in the long run, but it
*takes* time to learn how to do it and then to get it set up.

Post by Joseph Rosevear
Hmmm. I wonder? I had radically, modified Slackware, and had very
little room to spare on each machine's SSD.

Create a Slackware "package" that implements your modifications, and
then it's just "installpkg localmods-1.0" to get a number of systems set
up?

Definitely sounds tempting. What I did *was* an odd departure from the
norm.

My method uses a combination of patches, script-based changes, and
rsync. rsync was useful because I implement a generic user, student,
which is fully setup, including the browser cache. One of the mods is a
change to the system which causes a re-creation the student directory
each boot. This makes the system immune to user changes and prevents the
browser cache from getting large.

So I could maybe have put all that into a Slackware "package", but why
bother? I had to use rsync, anyway.

Sylvain Robitaille

2024-03-29 23:40:12 UTC

Post by Joseph Rosevear
My method uses a combination of patches, script-based changes, and
rsync. ...
So I could maybe have put all that into a Slackware "package", but why
bother? I had to use rsync, anyway.

The devil's in the details, of course. As with most things Linux,
there's more than one correct answer. If what you had worked, there
indeed wouldn't have been any reason to redo it.

I've been preparing for a major move, which will give me an
opportunity to upgrade more of my home systems to Slackware-15.0,
and I am indeed strongly considering adding cfengine. Not because
I have so many systems that I *need* it, but because it really does
work well, and once I have it setup, most of my customizations will
(more easily?) survive future OS upgrades.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille ***@therockgarden.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Luis Mendes

2024-04-15 20:27:23 UTC

Hi,

I've been preparing for a major move, which will give me an opportunity
to upgrade more of my home systems to Slackware-15.0, and I am indeed
strongly considering adding cfengine. Not because I have so many
systems that I *need* it, but because it really does work well, and once
I have it setup, most of my customizations will (more easily?) survive
future OS upgrades.

I don't know cfengine, but took a look and it seems another complex
software architecture, well suited for corporations.

Another tool that I'm beginning to explore is at the other extreme: kermit.

C-Kermit has had 40 years to iron out bugs.
Has a scripting language.
http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ck90.html

Has a beta version for version 10:
https://www.kermitproject.org/ckupdates.html

It has a service that can be run at each server: iksd
http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/iksd.html

Very simple to compile from source.
It seems to suit me (more experience needed, though).

Luís

Henrik Carlqvist

2024-04-16 05:49:14 UTC

Post by Luis Mendes
Another tool that I'm beginning to explore is at the other extreme: kermit.

It was many years since I used kermit, back then on DOS/Windows. I don't
even remember the name of the program I replaced it with, but it was
slightly easier to use to dial up BBSes with a modem. Today, I usually
use minicom in Linux whenever I have some kind of need for serial
communication. There is also seyon, but I haven't used that in many years.

regards Henrik

Luis Mendes

2024-04-16 18:08:15 UTC

Hi Henrik,

Post by Luis Mendes
Another tool that I'm beginning to explore is at the other extreme: kermit.

Didn't know about seyon. It seems to be only for modem related
communications.

Kermit has evolved and has networking support via ssh.

Regards,

Luís

Sylvain Robitaille

2024-04-19 12:18:03 UTC

Post by Luis Mendes
I don't know cfengine, but took a look and it seems another complex
software architecture, well suited for corporations.

On the one hand, I have to agree that it isn't for the faint of heart.
There is a rather steep learning curve, which makes it largely
impractical for environments with few computers, but once you have
your head wrapped around it, it really does what it promises.

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Sylvain Robitaille ***@therockgarden.ca
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The Real Bev

2024-04-19 21:56:00 UTC

Post by Luis Mendes
I don't know cfengine, but took a look and it seems another complex
software architecture, well suited for corporations.

After reading the Wikipedia page I am curious about how CFengine could
manage upward of a million stations running numerous operating systems.
Can you give me any hint how this is done without millions of if statements?

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Cheers, Bev
Nothing is so stupid that you can't find somebody who
did it at least once if you look hard enough.

Sylvain Robitaille

2024-04-21 14:34:05 UTC

Post by The Real Bev
After reading the Wikipedia page I am curious about how CFengine could
manage upward of a million stations running numerous operating
systems. Can you give me any hint how this is done without millions
of if statements?

The control "language" (for lack of a better term) consists of
different "stanzas", which are selected by variables set, in some cases
by the agent running on the client system ("this host runs linux"
or "this host runs solaris", etc.), and in others by the sysadmin,
typically by triggering a check of some kind (content of a file,
for example, to say that this host is in "lab A", or that the system
has some particular function). And then in each stanza, you define
a particular intended state (permissions on some file, existence
of some software package, setting yet another variable to be acted
on at a later stage, etc.) and for some operations, how to achieve
that state if the system lacks it. (file operations, for example
are already built into cfengine, but package installation isn't).

This is a (hopefully) simplified explanation, but as you can imagine,
if you organize the stanzas in some way that is intuitive for your
environment, it all becomes relatively easy to manage. It may take
more than one pass through to organize things in a way that makes
sense.

I hope that I've helped.

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Sylvain Robitaille ***@therockgarden.ca
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The Real Bev

2024-04-21 15:50:19 UTC