Install 15.0 on G3 plus N150

[root]

I can't seem to get linux installed on this mini computer.
It does not support legacy boot. I tried installing
on the onboard NVMe ssd:no luck booting. Then I tried
just installing from the install usb to a second usb.
That works on a similar Lenovo laptop. No luck with
N150. You tube shows easy installs. Any ideas
of what the problem might be?

Thanks.

[John Forkosh]

Post by root
I can't seem to get linux installed on this mini computer.
It does not support legacy boot. I tried installing
on the onboard NVMe ssd:no luck booting. Then I tried
just installing from the install usb to a second usb.
That works on a similar Lenovo laptop. No luck with
N150. You tube shows easy installs. Any ideas
of what the problem might be? Thanks.

No idea about problem, but have you tried installing
from Slackware live, https://download.liveslak.org/ ?
That's worked for me when I've had problems with the
usual install. Just boot your liveslak usb, and in
the upper-left of the screen there's an "install"
button. The subsequent procedure is pretty much
identical to the usual install, but no boot problems.

[Marco Moock]

Post by root
I can't seem to get linux installed on this mini computer.
It does not support legacy boot. I tried installing
on the onboard NVMe ssd:no luck booting. Then I tried
just installing from the install usb to a second usb.
That works on a similar Lenovo laptop. No luck with
N150. You tube shows easy installs. Any ideas
of what the problem might be?

You have to install en efi bootloader. I recommend GRUB2. Did you
install it?
You can do that in the shell after the install:

grub-install # no disk for UEFI

[root]

Post by Marco Moock
You have to install en efi bootloader. I recommend GRUB2. Did you
install it?
grub-install # no disk for UEFI

It turns out the N150 small computer is damned difficult to
work with, as all systemd machines. On top of this, I
am pretty sure you cannot get sound to go to the HDMI on the \
thing.


I did not know grub was an option for the install. Let me get
this straight before I go back to the N150:

During the install, when it asks about lilo, I should
decline installing lilo and leave the MBR alone?

At the end of the install, before rebooting, I should
use a grub operation? I did not know that grub was
available on the install. If so, then wouldn't
I have to do grub-mkconfig before the grub-install?
I'm asking because I will have to wipe the OS
on some machine to test this.

For one who has lived with Slackware forever, systemd
is a nightmare. You can do sudo su, and run as
root for a while, but there are things that even
root cannot do. To get at these things you have to
disable systemctl, then it is hard to navigate
around the system.

[root]

Post by root
For one who has lived with Slackware forever, systemd
is a nightmare. You can do sudo su, and run as
root for a while, but there are things that even
root cannot do. To get at these things you have to
disable systemctl, then it is hard to navigate
around the system.

I was correct, there is no grub in the 15.0 install.
There is grub in the 15.0 live (current) system.
However, the one I got boots into Plasma, and
is at least as bad as the systemd stuff I
have been dealing with. Also, the live is not
persistent, which older versions were.

More bitching about Plasma, finding an xterm took
too long for me. I gave up on shutting down to
a console. Along the way I managed to corrupt
the live system, and I am rewriting the install
USB as I write.

[root]

Post by root

Post by root
For one who has lived with Slackware forever, systemd
is a nightmare. You can do sudo su, and run as
root for a while, but there are things that even
root cannot do. To get at these things you have to
disable systemctl, then it is hard to navigate
around the system.

I was correct, there is no grub in the 15.0 install.
There is grub in the 15.0 live (current) system.
However, the one I got boots into Plasma, and
is at least as bad as the systemd stuff I
have been dealing with. Also, the live is not
persistent, which older versions were.
More bitching about Plasma, finding an xterm took
too long for me. I gave up on shutting down to
a console. Along the way I managed to corrupt
the live system, and I am rewriting the install
USB as I write.

Even more bitching. Why is the persistent option
no longer available? Why is the font of the
help directory so small and blurry that it
cannot be read? Why can't I find a grub.cfg
to change to boot into init 3? What is happening
to Slackware?

I have to get a new system up under a uefi boot
system this afternoon. It all used to be so
simple.

[root]

Post by root
Even more bitching. Why is the persistent option
no longer available? Why is the font of the
help directory so small and blurry that it
cannot be read? Why can't I find a grub.cfg
to change to boot into init 3? What is happening
to Slackware?

OK, I got it, when is say sudo su, the password
they ask for is not the root password. Since I
have logged in as live with the password live,
why do they ask again? Still my complaint about
persistence.

I'll see how it goes later today.

[Rich]

Post by root

Post by root
Even more bitching. Why is the persistent option
no longer available? Why is the font of the
help directory so small and blurry that it
cannot be read? Why can't I find a grub.cfg
to change to boot into init 3? What is happening
to Slackware?

OK, I got it, when is say sudo su, the password
they ask for is not the root password. Since I

If your 'help docs' say "sudo su" then they were written by a Ubuntu
user. I.e., someone who learned "Ubuntu" -- not Linux.

No proper Slackware user would ever foolishly suggest 'sudo su'.

[Marco Moock]

Post by Rich

Post by root

Post by root
Even more bitching. Why is the persistent option
no longer available? Why is the font of the
help directory so small and blurry that it
cannot be read? Why can't I find a grub.cfg
to change to boot into init 3? What is happening
to Slackware?

OK, I got it, when is say sudo su, the password
they ask for is not the root password. Since I

If your 'help docs' say "sudo su" then they were written by a Ubuntu
user. I.e., someone who learned "Ubuntu" -- not Linux.

sudo is a UNIX tool and can be configured in many ways.
It can ask for the user's password if configured to do that (IIRC
default).

Post by Rich
No proper Slackware user would ever foolishly suggest 'sudo su'.

Depends. In certain environments with many admins individual passwords
are preferred. If those users should be able to become another one they
might use sudo su in Slackware.

[Chris Elvidge]

Post by Marco Moock

Post by Rich

Post by root

Post by root
Even more bitching. Why is the persistent option
no longer available? Why is the font of the
help directory so small and blurry that it
cannot be read? Why can't I find a grub.cfg
to change to boot into init 3? What is happening
to Slackware?

OK, I got it, when is say sudo su, the password
they ask for is not the root password. Since I

If your 'help docs' say "sudo su" then they were written by a Ubuntu
user. I.e., someone who learned "Ubuntu" -- not Linux.

sudo is a UNIX tool and can be configured in many ways.
It can ask for the user's password if configured to do that (IIRC
default).

Post by Rich
No proper Slackware user would ever foolishly suggest 'sudo su'.

Depends. In certain environments with many admins individual passwords
are preferred. If those users should be able to become another one they
might use sudo su in Slackware.

Why not 'sudo -i' ?

[root]

Post by Chris Elvidge
Why not 'sudo -i' ?

I know I got a slap on the wrist for even talking about
systemd in this news group, but it is really something
that should be thought about. Unix divided patrons
into ordinary and root. Systemd has four levels.
Unlike Unix, root cannot do many functions under
systemd, which has levels of ordinary, root, snap,
and systemctl. At least some of the config files
of systemd are not human readable, but can be
made so using snap commands, though I found changing
those config files did not change function, that
was dictated by the systemctl level.

Why do I think it important to think about this?
Is software that we use the same as electronics
we us that is encased in plastic that we cannot
pentrate even to make a simple capacitor replacement?
Modern displays often fail and are replaced
when a simple replacement if a string of leds
would fix the display. They could have made
that replacement as simple as replacing a refrigerator
bulb.

Is it right for a company to sell a device with
only secure boot and no option for legacy boot?
who owns the thing after paying for it?

Why has systemd taken control to the extent that
(perhaps) only Slackware remains true to the
Unix ideal?

I think the answer is Microsoft influence making linux
as impenetrable as windows.

[Marco Moock]

Post by root
Why has systemd taken control to the extent that
(perhaps) only Slackware remains true to the
Unix ideal?
I think the answer is Microsoft influence making linux
as impenetrable as windows.

This was crafted by RedHat. MS is rather new in the Linux environment.

*BSD also exists. :-)

[Rich]

Post by Marco Moock

Post by root
Why has systemd taken control to the extent that
(perhaps) only Slackware remains true to the
Unix ideal?
I think the answer is Microsoft influence making linux
as impenetrable as windows.

This was crafted by RedHat. MS is rather new in the Linux environment.
*BSD also exists. :-)

The inventor and chief architect behind systemd now works for MS.

[Marco Moock]

Post by Rich

Post by Marco Moock

Post by root
Why has systemd taken control to the extent that
(perhaps) only Slackware remains true to the
Unix ideal?
I think the answer is Microsoft influence making linux
as impenetrable as windows.

This was crafted by RedHat. MS is rather new in the Linux
environment.
*BSD also exists. :-)

The inventor and chief architect behind systemd now works for MS.

Since 2022. systemd itself is much older.

[Sam]

Post by root
Why has systemd taken control to the extent that
(perhaps) only Slackware remains true to the
Unix ideal?

There's also Devuan.

Post by root
I think the answer is Microsoft influence making linux
as impenetrable as windows.

Not Microsoft. It's Red Hat that foisted that crap on everyone.

[Sylvain Robitaille]

Post by root
I was correct, there is no grub in the 15.0 install.

I'm afraid that's incorrect. I keep a mirror of the latest Slackware
installation tree, so I can easily install and patch on my own systems,
and I see grub in the "a" subset:

... 163 Sep 10 2021 /local/var/slackware/slackware64-15.0/slackware64/a/grub-2.06-x86_64-4.txt
... 9.8M Sep 10 2021 /local/var/slackware/slackware64-15.0/slackware64/a/grub-2.06-x86_64-4.txz
... 182 Sep 10 2021 /local/var/slackware/slackware64-15.0/slackware64/a/grub-2.06-x86_64-4.txz.asc

Post by root
However, the one I got boots into Plasma, and is at least as bad as
the systemd stuff I have been dealing with.

I don't know why you continue to go on about systemd. I'm certainly not
a fan, but I have worked with it. It stinks rather badly, but it can be
worked with, without disabling its bits. I will not defend it, but
Slackware doesn't use systemd, so why complain about it here?

Post by root
More bitching about Plasma, finding an xterm took too long for me.

On Slackware-15.0? It's right there, in the "System" menu ... or you
could try the "search" field ... you're welcome ...

[Marco Moock]

Post by root
I did not know grub was an option for the install. Let me get
During the install, when it asks about lilo, I should
decline installing lilo and leave the MBR alone?

You have to do a regular EFI installation (ESP partition). LILO is no
usable for that. elilo would be.

You can install grub2 in the shell after the installation finished
(don't reboot).

[root]

Post by Marco Moock

Post by root
I did not know grub was an option for the install. Let me get
During the install, when it asks about lilo, I should
decline installing lilo and leave the MBR alone?

You have to do a regular EFI installation (ESP partition). LILO is no
usable for that. elilo would be.
You can install grub2 in the shell after the installation finished
(don't reboot).

Do I call it grub or grub2?

Now I have a worse problem than I had before. Neither the regular 15.0
install usb, nor the live64 usb are recognized by the N150.

In general I have some UEFI questions and Slackware:
If I can get back to a functioning install USB, must I
partition a bare drive with the proper UEFI partitions
before starting the install, or will the install
automatically go to UEFI. During the install, at the time
I am asked about lilo, it is already too late to have
the first partition be changed back to type EF, or
whatever it is supposed to be.

I spent several hours this morning trying to install
slackware on an NVMe drive which later proved to
be unrecognizable by the N150.

Incidentaly, I only rave against systemd because I
cannot totally ignore it. That and the whole secure
boot are insane.

Thanks for responding.

[root]

Post by Marco Moock
You have to do a regular EFI installation (ESP partition). LILO is no
usable for that. elilo would be.
You can install grub2 in the shell after the installation finished
(don't reboot).

After following through on this, I assert that grub is *NOT* on
the slackware 15.0 install iso. Moreover, elilo did not work.

This time I partitioned the target with two partitions
the first 300MB and type ef00 and the second all the
rest of the drive.

At the start of the install I gave the target as
the second partition, and the install recognized
the first partition. It formatted the first as
fat32, and the second as ext4.

After the install stopped chugging away I was asked about
lilo and I declined. I installed elilo instead. When
the install finished I did not reboot, I did
which grub and which grub2, neither came up.
So I exited and rebooted the system.

Upon boot the elilo stuff came up and delivered
some messages like installing intrd and something
else, but the system just locked up after that.

Just to make sure about grub, I booted back
up with the install disk. I mounted the installed
system, did the proc/sys/dev thing and chrooted
to the mounted partition. Again I did which
grub and grub2 and neither was found on the
install.

Now I am downloading the live64 in hopes that
I can repeat the above process with something
that does have grub.

It shouldn't be this much trouble.

[root]

Post by root
It shouldn't be this much trouble.

I abandoned the whole project.
At least for the N150, slackware uefi boot
doesn't work. On the other hand, neither
does the N150:under X, both Ubuntu and Slackware
had a steady stream of error messages.

[Petri Kaukasoina]

I did which grub and which grub2, neither came up. So I exited and rebooted
the system.

...

Just to make sure about grub, I booted back
up with the install disk. I mounted the installed
system, did the proc/sys/dev thing and chrooted
to the mounted partition. Again I did which
grub and grub2 and neither was found on the
install.

There is no command 'grub' or 'grub2' (there is no command 'elilo', either).
In case of UEFI, you first install the boot loader:

grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot/efi --bootloader-id=GRUB --recheck

and then you create the configuration file:

grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg

[root]

Post by Petri Kaukasoina
There is no command 'grub' or 'grub2' (there is no command 'elilo', either).
grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot/efi --bootloader-id=GRUB --recheck
grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg

I got my install 15.0 iso from an official Slackware mirror. I got
my slackware live from wherever it was offered. In both cases,
the image I got did not have the grub commands. Just to
double check, I just booted the 15.0 install and after loggin
in as root, I did:
which grub-install

and got nothing back.

The grub commands are not like elilo. I was asked about
elilo and followed the instructions using a pre-partioned
target. It all came back looking OK, but the N150 secure
boot system did not allow the installed system to boot.

Believe it or not, just to get Slackware on the device
I installed ubuntu on the second (primary) NVMe drive
and booted into that. I then copied the contents of
its efi partition over to the slackware partition that
would not run. Surprise, then I could run Slackware.

Draw your own conclusions from that.

[Petri Kaukasoina]

Post by root
I got my install 15.0 iso from an official Slackware mirror. I got
my slackware live from wherever it was offered. In both cases,
the image I got did not have the grub commands. Just to
double check, I just booted the 15.0 install and after loggin
which grub-install

If you mean you booted the install iso image (the usb stick) then you are
right: there is no lilo, elilo or grub in the installer system running in
RAM. The installer installs the Slackware packages on the target disk and
the setup scripts offer to install lilo or elilo and they do that by running
/sbin/liloconfig or /usr/sbin/eliloconfig of the installed system (on the
file system on disk, not the installer file system in RAM). Similarly, there
are /usr/sbin/grub-install and /usr/sbin/grub-mkconfig on the installed
system. There is not yet a menu item to install grub, but you can install it
yourself. When you are at the 'CONFIGURE THE SYSTEM' menu item, don't
install lilo or elilo but change to a different virtual terminal
(Alt-Ctrl-F?), 'chroot /mnt' and give the grub-install and grub-mkconfig
there. If you did the full install, /usr/sbin/grub-install and
/usr/sbin/grub-mkconfig are there.

[Henrik Carlqvist]

but the N150 secure boot system did not allow the installed
system to boot.

It does not matter which boot loader you choose (elilo, grub, extlinux).
If you are unable to disable secure boot in your BIOS cmos settings it
will probably not allow anything but MS Windows to boot.

regards Henrik

[Chris Vine]

On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 06:39:52 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Henrik Carlqvist

but the N150 secure boot system did not allow the installed
system to boot.

It does not matter which boot loader you choose (elilo, grub, extlinux).
If you are unable to disable secure boot in your BIOS cmos settings it
will probably not allow anything but MS Windows to boot.

Alien Bob's LiveSlak is reputed to be installable on secure-boot-only
systems: https://alien.slackbook.org/blog/tag/secureboot/ . I have my
own installation boot sticks which will also boot up under secure boot
conditions in a similar way.

The way they work is that the sticks contain kernel images signed by me
(or Alien Bob), fedora's shim signed by Microsoft, and MokManager
signed by fedora (which is recognised by the Microsoft-signed shim).
The first time you boot on the stick, MokManager will come up and invite
you to enter your relevant kernel key (mine or Alien Bob's) and then you
can reboot on the stick and should be able to start installation.

The main requirement is that your computer should come with Microsoft's
key for third party EFI applications pre-installed and should permit
booting from a USB stick. I think it is the case that all current
windows computers do so, but who knows.

For some reason I didn't experience the difficulties moving from
grub-2.06 to grub-2.12 that Alien Bob did - I don't know why. But if
the worst comes to the worst you can stick with grub-2.06.

Chris

[Sylvain Robitaille]

Post by root
After following through on this, I assert that grub is *NOT* on
the slackware 15.0 install iso. Moreover, elilo did not work.

Ah ... then perhaps the FILELIST.TXT file is simply incorrect?

: elvira[syl] ~; grep -is grub /local/var/slackware/slackware64-15.0/FILELIST.TXT
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 78 2013-09-23 20:35 ./EFI/BOOT/grub-embedded.cfg
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 893 2018-04-17 21:17 ./EFI/BOOT/grub.cfg
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2504 2019-07-05 18:54 ./EFI/BOOT/make-grub.sh
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 182 2021-09-10 18:45 ./slackware64/a/grub-2.06-x86_64-4.txt
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10176528 2021-09-10 18:45 ./slackware64/a/grub-2.06-x86_64-4.txz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 163 2021-09-10 18:45 ./slackware64/a/grub-2.06-x86_64-4.txz.asc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 202 2022-01-04 21:34 ./slackware64/kde/breeze-grub-5.23.5-x86_64-1.txt
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3140496 2022-01-04 21:34 ./slackware64/kde/breeze-grub-5.23.5-x86_64-1.txz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 163 2022-01-04 21:34 ./slackware64/kde/breeze-grub-5.23.5-x86_64-1.txz.asc
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2021-09-10 18:39 ./source/a/grub
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 291 2021-09-10 18:33 ./source/a/grub/0001-skip-new-files-in-etc-grub.d.patch.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 639 2018-05-16 15:18 ./source/a/grub/0198-align-struct-efi_variable-better.patch.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1743 2021-09-09 03:04 ./source/a/grub/a4b495520e4dc41a896a8b916a64eda9970c50ea.patch.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 307 2021-09-10 18:36 ./source/a/grub/doinst.sh.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 926 2016-06-13 03:14 ./source/a/grub/etc.default.grub
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6581924 2021-06-08 17:22 ./source/a/grub/grub-2.06.tar.xz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 566 2021-06-08 17:22 ./source/a/grub/grub-2.06.tar.xz.sig
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 7468 2021-09-10 18:35 ./source/a/grub/grub.SlackBuild
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 704 2016-12-25 09:49 ./source/a/grub/grub.dejavusansmono.gfxterm.font.diff.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 299 2012-09-29 04:34 ./source/a/grub/initrd_naming.patch.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 634 2018-11-29 19:15 ./source/a/grub/slack-desc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2 2021-10-14 16:34 ./source/kde/kde/build/breeze-grub
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 95 2016-04-11 07:41 ./source/kde/kde/post-install/breeze-grub.post-install
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 661 2020-11-01 20:11 ./source/kde/kde/slack-desc/breeze-grub
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3154068 2022-01-04 09:49 ./source/kde/kde/src/plasma/breeze-grub-5.23.5.tar.xz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 833 2022-01-04 09:49 ./source/kde/kde/src/plasma/breeze-grub-5.23.5.tar.xz.sig

Others have suggested you use grub2, and I've indicated that it is
indeed there in the local mirror I have (with timestamps matching the
above, in fact). It must be that we're all mistaken, then. (have you
checked that your installation disk is complete? Have you *looked* on
the installation disk in the "a" subset? Did you know that you can?)

Post by root
After the install stopped chugging away I was asked about
lilo and I declined. I installed elilo instead. When
the install finished I did not reboot, I did
which grub and which grub2, neither came up.
So I exited and rebooted the system.
Upon boot the elilo stuff came up and delivered
some messages like installing intrd and something
else, but the system just locked up after that.

You didn't create an initrd and re-run (e)lilo prior to rebooting.
Common mistake. Mildly annoying when it happens, but easily
recoverable in general.

Post by root
...
It shouldn't be this much trouble.

I agree that it shouldn't be, but I'm inclined to think that perhaps
you simply haven't read enough about how this is supposed to work.

One of the great things about Slackware is that it will not try
to protect you from your own lack of knowledge. The system will
gleefully do as you say, right from the get-go. As great as that is,
it can be a cause of grief if you try to proceed with either incomplete
or incorrect information (such as that which might be applicable to
other Linux distributions).

Here's what I suggest at this point:

Get Slackware running on a non-UEFI system, and get to really
know how it works. Get to a point where something like Ubuntu
(or many others, either "deb" derivatives or "rpm" derivatives)
is something you can work with (for example if your employer needs
it), but thanks to experience with Slackware, you understand what's
really going on behind the scenes with them. THEN go ahead and
install Slackware on a UEFI system. You won't have any of the
trouble you've been ranting about here. If, on the other hand, you
continue to just poke around in the dark, well ...

[root]

Post by Sylvain Robitaille

Post by root
It shouldn't be this much trouble.

I agree that it shouldn't be, but I'm inclined to think that perhaps
you simply haven't read enough about how this is supposed to work.

Thanks for responding.

What I had thought is that before rebooting I could fetch
grub from the install disk. I do know, and did know,
that grub was on the installed system. At any time
after the install, I could always mount the installed
system, do the sys/dev/proc stuff, and chmod
into it and run grub from that. Why not simply
have grub in the install disk and allow the grub
to run before rebooting?

As far as elilo goes, I only tried that once, and I
guess I didn't know all that was required. I did
partition the target. I got message that the
efi partition was formatted fat 32, etc. If
further steps were required I should have been
guided by the install process.


This is all behind me now, I know I will never
buy a system that does not offer legacy boot.

[Henrik Carlqvist]

I know I will never buy a system that does not offer legacy boot.

I came to the same conclusion several years ago, but today, most machines
with newer intel CPUs does not support anything but UEFI to boot.

My prefered way to boot UEFI machines is with syslinux/extlinux. However
it does require files from a newer version of syslinux than the one
included in Slackware. Another disadvantage with syslinux is that it is
no longer maintained. So I know that I did choose an odd way and
understand if most people instead would suggest elilo or grub which are
included in Slackware.

It was several years ago when I had to get UEFI booting on a system where
the BIOS did support legacy boot, but the booting device was an nvme
stick which LILO was unable to boot from.

Back then I did choose syslinux as I was familiar with its syntax after
having created bootable optical media and pxe boot systems with syslinux.
Back then syslinux was also maintained. So far, that syslinux approach
has worked an all UEFI systems that I have seen, but I do need to disable
secure boot. I have also seen a Dell system which was unable to boot
unless I disabled some RAID mode in the SATA controller settings.

regards Henrik

[Marco Moock]

Post by root
If I can get back to a functioning install USB, must I
partition a bare drive with the proper UEFI partitions
before starting the install, or will the install
automatically go to UEFI.

You have to use gdisk to create the partitions.

100MB EF00 FAT32 /boot/grub
and one for /, e.g. Type Linux formatted with ext4.

The run setup and mount them with the menu.

[root]

Post by Marco Moock
You have to use gdisk to create the partitions.
100MB EF00 FAT32 /boot/grub
and one for /, e.g. Type Linux formatted with ext4.
The run setup and mount them with the menu.

Thanks, I did that.